K2: An Earthquake and an Accusation

K2 Winter 8000ers
Nazir Sabir. Photo: Asia Society

An earthquake in Pakistan, and a controversial accusation that sends shock waves through two countries

A 6.4 earthquake jolted Pakistan earlier yesterday. Although the epicenter was in Tajikistan to the north, the tremor shook Islamabad, Lahore, and the Northern Areas. At the same time, venerable Pakistani mountaineer Nazir Sabir shook the ground in his own way, by accusing the K2 Nepali summiters of removing the fixed ropes from the Bottleneck and thus contributing to the tragic loss of Ali Sadpara, John Snorri, and JP Mohr.

The Northerner Blog (which posted Sabir’s accusation) told ExplorersWeb that Sabir “is categorically saying that Sherpas took back every rope from the Bottleneck and upper sections, and only Ali Sadpara would have been able to re-fix them since Snorri’s hands were frostbitten and JP Mohr wasn’t such an experienced climber.”

Although Sabir is a respected figure in Pakistan, his controversial remarks seem to stoke discord without any evidence. Neither the Nepali summiters nor leader Chhang Dawa Sherpa ever mentioned anything of the kind. Descending in the dark, exhausted, why would any of them have wasted a single minute to disengage the ropes? They just wanted to get down as quickly as possible. Even Sajid Sadpara has not mentioned any missing ropes. Nevertheless, the loss of Ali Sadpara has created shock waves throughout the country, and emotions are running high.

Meanwhile, Chhang Dawa and the Seven Summit Trek climbers reached Skardu and quickly transferred to the Islamabad airport and back home.

Tamara Lunger tries to find some peace of mind during the trek back to Skardu. Photo: Tamara Lunger

Bitter memories

Back in Colorado, Jon Kedrowski recounts yet a third version of Atanas Skatov’s tragic accident. “Atanas fell to his death just below Camp 3 in the Black Pyramid [when] he was rappeling down a section with Lhakpa Dendi,” Kedrowski wrote on his blog. “Dendi filmed Atanas descend a section, then he panned the camera away to show the view toward Base Camp. When he turned the camera off and looked back down to his left, Atanas was gone. He fell all the way down for 6,000’.”

Kedrowski reported that Skatov hurtled down the steep, icy slopes all the way to a spot near ABC. He ended up not far from where Sergi Mingote came to rest after his own fatal fall on January 16. “There’s no way [Atanas] could have survived that fall,” Kedrowski said.

They then had to break the sad news to Skatov’s fiancee, who waited in Base Camp for him. Her excruciating pain left Kedrowski deeply shocked. “I can’t describe the pain, sorrow, and difficulty she was facing. For me, it was sad and scary too…At any time, these mountains could turn me into that, a dead man, gone forever. I thought of my loved ones back home, the people that cared about me the most. I vowed to never let them feel what Sheny was feeling. It was indescribable.”

Soon after, there followed the shocking news about the three men who disappeared on their way to the summit.

That search operation, we should add, is not over: The Pakistan Military have tasked a Lockheed C-130E Hercules to conduct a FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared Radar) mission that started yesterday. The ground search also continues. Forecasts show good weather on Monday, which will help on the search.

A Lockheed C-130E Hercules from the Pakistan Air Force continues to search K2 for the three climbers missing since February 5. Photo: Airliners.net

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About the Author

Angela Benavides

Angela Benavides

Senior journalist, published author and communication consultant. Specialized on high-altitude mountaineering, with an interest for everything around the mountains: from economics to geopolitics. After five years exploring distant professional ranges, I returned to ExWeb BC in 2018. Feeling right at home since then!

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F v
F v
19 days ago

I read a article this morning with a little different story from Sajid on bbc: “while Sajid was setting up the cylinder, its mask regulator sprang a leak. Meanwhile, his father and the two foreigners continued to scale the Bottleneck. His father then looked back and shouted to Sajid to keep climbing. “I shouted that the cylinder had leaked. He said, ‘don’t worry, keep climbing, you’ll feel better’. But I couldn’t gather the strength to do it, and decided to turn back. It was around noon on Friday. That was the last I saw of them.” What could have happened?… Read more »

Don Paul
Don Paul
18 days ago
Reply to  F v

This part of the story disturbs me the most. Sajid says he feels sick and can’t continue, so his father gives him the emergency O2, to use on the way up. If there were an emergency, the plan would be to go down, not up. Then it doesn’t work, and his father urges him to continue up without O2 even though he just said he couldn’t go on. He’s alive because he wouldn’t go, and that’s a tough way to remember your father’s death. Also, if they were thinking clearly they would have given the one radio they had to… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Don Paul
Tina
Tina
16 days ago
Reply to  Don Paul

He’s gave two different stories. The first was his dad told him to go back and this one where his dad said to keep climbing.

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Walid Hamadeh
Walid Hamadeh
19 days ago

It is interesting that individuals miles away are coming to a damning conclusion about the 10 Nepalis removing fixed ropes off the mountain on their descent. These accusations are pretty serious and should not be repeated until a full inquiry and investigation is held to figure out exactly wat went wrong. From having followed the winter K2 20/21 expedition from its inception I can say that there might have been many many factors that led to the death of the climbers however removing fixed ropes would be one theory – conspiracy – that is certainly highly unlikely. The mountaineering community… Read more »

delwyne trefz
delwyne trefz
18 days ago
Reply to  Walid Hamadeh

To what Walid has said I would add that if any segment of the mountaineering community personifies the spirit of sharing, aiding and helping each other, it is the Sherpa of Nepal.

+3
Abs
Abs
17 days ago
Reply to  delwyne trefz

Not entirely.. last year John Snorri and Mingma G had a fallout where MG was acting weird, delaying things and his team falling injuries etc.. let me find that post and share it.. In the meanwhile, read this from a recent interview after the summit.. ” First thing Nims mentioned was that they had their own Nepalese Meteorologist whose predictions ended up being more accurate than the ones the others were following. And Mingma G also talked about how once they formed the all Nepalese team, they were dead set on being the first ones to summit. Nims suggested they… Read more »

Jade
Jade
17 days ago
Reply to  Abs

I have had a feeling, a hunch about this from the start. No proof but I think this whole sad chain of events on K2 must be investigated. Maybe not ALL the Nepalese were guilty of sabatoge. All it takes is one..and there is definitely enough motive for Nims from the stuff we’ve heard. Where there’s smoke there just may be fire. But I think I need to counter my earlier statements with a bit of fairness. In other words, not find them guilty before a full investigation is done and I think there needs to be one. Atanas fall… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
15 days ago
Reply to  Jade

Jade, do you understand that people fall and get killed or disappear on K2 all the time? It didn’t get the nickname “Savage Mountain” because it was an easy climb. Things that for some reason you believe are suspicious and sabotage are just what happens on this super-dangerous mountain. It is not at all odd that the Nepalis summited and survived. There are reasons it was not deadly for the Nepalis: 1) True teamwork! 2) Their team included only the best of the best climbers– not just those who could pay their way. In fact, Mingma G learned his lesson… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
17 days ago
Reply to  Abs

Abs, do we really know why Snorri and Mingma G had a falling out with each other and who was at fault? It depends on who is telling it. It is sad that you have tried to besmirch the good name of Mingma G rather unfairly. The version of the story I heard was Snorrie was rather ‘pushy’ and even his “level of risk taking’ was too much for Mingma G, a veteran climber, whose approach to mountaineering is rather conservative, wisdom borne out of many many years of hard climbing. Even what you wrote in your comment (see below)… Read more »

Last edited 17 days ago by Uttam
Abbas
Abbas
17 days ago
Reply to  Uttam

Mate read this article from last year – i’m not personally stating anything or bringing anyone in discord – i’m relaying what this article states .. i’ll read your reply in detail, in a rush right now with kids .. https://abenteuer-berg.de/en/after-8000-meter-winter-expeditions-satisfaction-and-trouble/ How commercial was the K2 attempt? There was also trouble’s brewing after the K2 winter expedition of the Nepalese Mingma Gyalje Sherpa and his team. The Icelander John Snorri Sigurjonsson and the Slovenian Tomaz Rotar accused the expedition leader of not really being interested in the successful winter ascent. “I myself avoid the term ‚commercial expedition‘, because I have not yet… Read more »

Last edited 17 days ago by Abbas
Uttam
Uttam
16 days ago
Reply to  Abbas

Abbas, I missed this link you shared: https://abenteuer-berg.de/en/after-8000-meter-winter-expeditions-satisfaction-and-trouble/. I think Mingma G has rebutted their charges effectively, and diplomatically in the article and also in his Facebook Post.He has laid out clearly why he had to abort their winter K2 expedition in 2020 and acknowledged some of the mistakes made. Nothing I need to add on this front. Perhaps I have been too harsh in my assessment of Snorri. What I gathered from the readings (I’m a couch potato after all), Snorri and Mingma had a falling out on account of their different approaches to mountaineering on winter K2 in… Read more »

Last edited 16 days ago by Uttam
Abbas
Abbas
17 days ago
Reply to  Uttam
Uttam
Uttam
17 days ago
Reply to  Abbas

Abbas, thanks for the link. Angela the WebExplorers reporter whom I respect highly has only flagged Snorri’s version of the story in that article, not Mingma’s, for whatever reason, so take it with a pinch of salt. Would you believe that Mingma G would suddenly say “he was unprepared” as reported by Snorri on his Instagram post … after they’d put together a team, obtained permits, gone to K2, and committed to give the summit a try. I don’t buy it. Probably Snorri – ever the pushy impatient risk-taker – conflates Mingma’s conservative approach to mountaineering as “the latter’s lack… Read more »

Last edited 17 days ago by Uttam
Uttam
Uttam
17 days ago

Hi Angela, thanks for the clarification and for sharing Mingma G’s Facebook Post that gives a synoptic ringside look into their 2019/20 K2 winter expedition from his perspective. I have found the 2020/2021 Winter K2 Story as reported by you and a few others that I have been following extremely engrossing, to say the least. Keep up the great work!

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
15 days ago
Reply to  Uttam

No one will know exactly what happened in 2019/2020 between Snorri and Mingma. But what is clear is that Snorri paid Mingma for that expedition. We will never know if Snorri’s expectations were wrong or if Mingma didn’t deliver as he should have. But this falling out highlights the dangers of commercial expeditions, where client expectations can be unrealistic or the reality of what is delivered can be deficient. Or both. The mismatch can be deadly. But Mingma clearly learned an important lesson: if he wants the freedom to climb the way he wants to climb (or not) he must… Read more »

Kurt
Kurt
19 days ago

Would they need the fixed ropes to ascend the Bottleneck? I can’t see them free climbing it. I think that Sajid would see if there were the ropes in place or not as he was already there and the lack of fixed ropes would cause a stir or at least a long break in their progress.

+2
Stefan
19 days ago

Dear readers. Don’t jump to blame the Nepalese. First of all, the three were behind the program, at least 3-4 hours. It is highly debatable whether they reached the top in broad daylight – first and foremost. A night descent from K2 at night is extremely difficult. The fact that they did not have oxygen made their mission even more difficult. It was known that the weather would become unfavorable for climbing and later to descend. The installation of those ropes by the Nepalese required a lot of effort and the three, except Mohr, were not part of the SST… Read more »

Don Paul
Don Paul
19 days ago

Mr. Sabir looks like quite a troublemaker. He is making claims without having any source for the information to back them up. The nationalism of the Nepalis was a little offensive, and maybe was perceived as a challenge to Pakistanis to see if they can repeat the climb in winter. This mountain is one of their national symbols. It’s not an ordinary sporting event, though, because of the high chance of death. It’s deadly serious but that doesn’t mean the climbers want to kill their competitors. I’m also not sure how he knows that Snorri’s hands were too frostbitten to… Read more »

Last edited 19 days ago by Don Paul
Uttam
Uttam
18 days ago
Reply to  Don Paul

Where did you watch the video of him (of Atanas Skatov yes?) rapelling – care to share the link with us? Do we know who the videographer was and his motivation for releasing the video?

+1
Don Paul
Don Paul
18 days ago
Reply to  Uttam

I got this information from the article you are commenting on. According to the article, Ms. Benavides’ source was Jon Kedrowski’s blog and the videographer was named Lhakpa Dendi.

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Last edited 18 days ago by Don Paul
Uttam
Uttam
18 days ago
Reply to  Don Paul

Thanks for the clarification Don. For a while you had me believe you had actually seen the video. Anyway, you had me believe that the videographer avoided capturing the crucial moment by DELIBERATELY turning the camera away just in the nick of time. You made it sound kinda suspenseful. That’s not how Jon Kedrowski (who was probably at the base camp at the time) interpreted it. He wrote in his blog : [Clip] Atanas was rappeling down a section with Lhakpa Dendi. Dendi filmed Atanas descend a section, THEN he panned the camera away to show the view towards Base… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Uttam
swiss_dude
swiss_dude
18 days ago

Just curious, if there are no fixed lines above C4, no matter if they were removed or a snowstorm blew them away, that would force the group to abort the summit push, especially with no oxygen, l assume? At least Adrian Ballinger said in an interview (he summited K2 with without supplemental oxygen in 2019) that if it hadn’t been for *drumroll* Nims Purja and his group who broke first the route with fixed lines to the top, they would not have been able to summit.

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Last edited 18 days ago by swiss_dude
Paul
Paul
18 days ago

Angela, what is the point to publish someones serious accusations that are not supported by any evidence and are made by someone who wasn’t in that place?
Do you really need that clickbaits?

+1
mijares
jose mijares
18 days ago
Reply to  Paul

You don’t want to know what’s going on? Someone make an straight accusation against Nepalis team and you want to ignore? if Safir lies or not will come later, but now we should know about this fact. A journalist must tell the story, not assume thats is truth or not. Let journalist work freely, please.

+1
John
John
18 days ago
Reply to  jose mijares

Well, it is the duty of a journalist to verify the accuracy of the information.

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jonesnori
jonesnori
18 days ago
Reply to  John

The information here was that an accusation had been made. I don’t think that fact is in dispute. The article gave some of the reasons why the accusation was unlikely to be true.

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Jade
Jade
17 days ago
Reply to  John

Argh. Really? But it IS accurate that this highly regarded person is making these allegations and he seems to have some pretty sound reasons. Of course, the truth will hopefully come out either way but questions need to be asked. Too many weird things that happened. She’s doing her job! Let her report without whining if you don’t like the content of her accurate reporting. Don’t shoot the messenger ya know?

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MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
17 days ago
Reply to  Jade

Nazir Sabir is highly regarded as a former mountaineer, but he wasn’t anywhere near K2, and has no basis for this claim. Only 3 climbed high enough to see if ropes were there or not, and none of these 3 returned. Sajid Sadpara said nothing that supports this apparently baseless claim. If there is evidence for what Sabir is saying, let him show that evidence. As to “too many weird things…happened”…what in the world do you mean? Sadly, the events on K2– climbers having accidents, climbers disappearing– is not at all weird, it is all too common. And there is… Read more »

asho
asho
18 days ago
Reply to  jose mijares

The straight accusation is delivered by a pretentious Pakistani journalist who assumes the love of high risks climbers and the K2 that is so alien to him.What a pitiful and a wretched mind at work.

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MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
18 days ago
Reply to  Paul

Paul, You are right if the person making unsubstantiated, likely baseless claims are nobodies. But the fact that the person making those claims here is Nazir Sabir makes it important to report this. If only because Sabir is respected and likely has lots of influence on opinion in Pakistan. Do we know that Sabir actually made this charge? Or only that a website claimed he made it?

0
Jade
Jade
17 days ago
Reply to  Paul

I believe what she’s doing is REPORTING facts. It’s a fact this guy is making serious allegations and he’s not just some random guy, he’s very highly respected. She is doing her JOB. And this guy isn’t the only one openly questioning whether sabotage is involved. This is newsworthy and the many tragedies have many questions that need answers. Of course no one wants to think a member of the Nepalese team could do something so vile. But start putting the pieces of the puzzle together and at the very least there’s grounds enough to warrant an investigation to find… Read more »

Farukh Ali
Farukh Ali
18 days ago

There’s no evidence if the ropes fixed by Nepalese were removed, so it’s just a theory until proven. Making such false accusations would mislead people who have little to no knowledge about mountains and climbing. It would also hurt the sentiments of community who have always worked together. The purpose of mountaineering is not to divide people but to bring them together. The Government of Pakistan celebrated the first winter ascent of K2 by Nepalese for days. The summit team met President, Army Chief, Ministers and many other personalities. They got proper reception in Pakistan. Muhammad Ali Sadpara received the… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Farukh Ali
Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
18 days ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

I think Pakistan agreed on 25.1.2021. to support his remaining 8000m climbs. Where was Pakistani goverment when Ali conquered 8 mountains above 8000m? Ali had financial issues and the goverment didnt want to help him through all this years. But i think that this is a chronic problem in Islamic societies. Today they dont value (enough) their heroes, their history, customs etc. A.I.Akram was a liutenant general in Pakistan army, and when he was a student in military academy he said that there was a black hole when they were learning about Islamic history. Because of that injustice he started… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
18 days ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

Very well put Farukh. I, too, was puzzled how come Pakistan’s #1 Mountaineering Legend Ali Sadpara was working as John Snorri’s HAP. It didn’t add up. I thought well may be Ali didn’t have adequate corporate sponsorship money or government support to go after the winter summit on K2 in his own home ground as an independent. If Ali had climbed K2 as an independent, he would have stood better chances of summiting K2 or returning back down safely. At the very least, he would have been free to make the summit push on Jan 15-16 when the weather window… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Uttam
chris
chris
17 days ago
Reply to  Uttam

“On January 14, Mingma G woke up early as did Nimsdai. Both were on the radio about pushing towards camp 3 as the weather was good. They got nothing from Chhang Dawa from the base camp, and as the weather started to get better, they risked and pushed to camp 3 to fix ropes to camp 4. That was the same day Snorri, Sadpara and his son were also on their way up. But, as their weather report said bad weather, they stayed at camp 2. When they tried to climb on, the winds stopped them from doing so.  “They… Read more »

Jade
Jade
17 days ago
Reply to  chris

Funny, above in the comments there was some discussion of conflicting/phoney weather reports used to throw off competing climbers in the past. This is really starting to stink..piece by piece it will all come together. Maybe It wasn’t the “mountain gods” wanting the Nepalese to have the mountain to themselves. I’m starting to really think it was Nims , not a “mountain god” who wanted the mountain and possibly did the unthinkable to ensure nobody following after would succeed and take his limelight. It’s time to investigate these subsequent tragedies fully..and accept the outcome of it either way. Maybe he’s… Read more »

chris
chris
17 days ago
Reply to  Jade

Let us not judge. Only those on the mountain during this ordeal know what happened and what was real. Equipment fails, batteries freeze, weather is erratic, and 8000m mountain’s are beyond my mortal imagination. I only posted the info I did to add to the comments/updates

Peace to all

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Sau
Sau
17 days ago
Reply to  Jade

You are definitely not a Nepali so you do not know how things are in Nepal. Mountains are worshipped, they are so often considered a living entity! And Nepalese are very familiar with quotes like ” the mountain cannot be climbed unless it allows you too”. Also regarding the weather prediction, the Nepali team took a gamble trusting their local meteorologist when a number of foreign meteorologists employed by different foreign climbers came with the same prediction of unfavourable weather. It could have gone either way. They got lucky when they pressed forward from camp 2 to camp 3.

+1
rosh
rosh
14 days ago
Reply to  Jade

Nims should sue you for making this horrendous claim. Nims and his team fixed lines till summit and other climbers were using it after them. They made it easy for other climber to climb not having to fix line in those unpredictable winter weather. Even after that people died because K2 is brutal. For all that Nims is to be blamed??Its laughable that people can’t digest the fact that Nims and his team made history because of their hard work and trying to belittle their effort by accusing them of false theories. Shame on you.

+1
F v
F v
17 days ago
Reply to  chris

“They got nothing from Chhang Dawa from the base camp” Strange statement, what for example about the load ferry including 5 ox cilinders lakpa8844 (IG) brought to C3 on 15th jan? In fact Dawa posted on 11 jan the schedule for C4 setup with Nims on the 15th, wich they did. Mingma g posted the most cover-ups. Day before he left BC he posted we will stay in BC for more days. On 14th he posted tomorrow we stay in C3 couz of high winds. Now he’s telling they had already recieved good weather forecast for the 15th to proceed… Read more »

christine wierbietzki
christine wierbietzki
18 days ago

Ropes or not, they had to take it on their own.
It’s unquestionable a great loss. but… they had to choose.
Please stop fronting Nepalese .
Be kind

+3
Ruben
Ruben
18 days ago

First of all, I would like to apologize for my first comment. It was rather “too simplified” and it collected a bunch of thumbs down. I can understand. Really. I would like to elaborate my thoughts a little bit more now. 1) I´m sincerely happy that it has been a team of 10 Nepalis (9 sherpas + 1 magar) who achieved the first K2 winter summit. 2) Of those 10 Nepalis, I´m particulary happy for the 9 sherpas. Having done some “research” about them, I see that they all come from a modest background, and they all have taken this… Read more »

jack
jack
18 days ago
Reply to  Ruben

U know why u got so much thumbs down in your first comment? Its coz u r so jealous of Nepalese and that u bet that Nepalese did everything to make sure no one else summit the mountain.Wow..Really, how did u know? Did u read their mind? It shows how small minded guy u r. U accused all 10 Nepalese and now u r saying Mingma G is so humble .Dude,U better stick to your point.In the first post,u accused all the 10 Nepali climbers of trying to stop others to climb and after u got so many thumbs down,U… Read more »

Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
18 days ago
Reply to  jack

Lets discuss few thing. First Nirmals Purja 14\7 quest. Mountanieers in the past didnt have desire (and also important – resources) to do 14 peaks in some speed record. I think his first 8000m peak was when he was about 30 years old (the perfect age, not late as you stated). He climbed few 8000m peaks and then decide to do this quest\task. In the past if some climber lets say did five eight-thousanders in 3 to 5 years, he didnt come with this idea, ok lets forget these 5 peaks that i have done in five years, lets do… Read more »

Stefan
18 days ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

No, this is “the most important part” and read carefully: The fact that Nirmal Purja was an ex-member of the British army has absolutely nothing to do with the deaths of the three climbers. The gurkhas are low-ranking military, there are not officers in British Army. If you are so kind, first check how much an ascent on K2 costs. Check how many managed to reach a peak of 8000m without the help of some sherpas. Check the sums paid by the westerners who were part of the SST team. As a matter of fact, the two of Mingma G’s… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Stefan
Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
18 days ago
Reply to  Stefan

Did u ever been in Afghanistan, Iraq etc to see how people live after Western led interventions? Do you know how many lives were destroyed because of that and how many people will not be able to chase their dreams? Nimral wasnt just an ordinary Ghurka, he was in British special forces, and by his words he was in Afghanistan, and he earned money from being there. I can respect someone climbing abilities, but i can not respect anyone who goes to war and earns money from that. I also can understand when 2 countries ar at direct war, and… Read more »

Stefan
17 days ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

Climbing K2 has nothing to do with armed wars. I was in Nepal. No tourists have ever been killed there, unlike Pakistan – check what they did in 2013 – Nanga Parbat Massacre, for money, in the name of a ‘holy religion’

0
Mike
Mike
17 days ago
Reply to  Stefan

Stefan, that was the ttp, a kharijite deviant group, who the Pakistani state defeated some years later. Do not attempt to link their deviant actions with Islam and Pakistan.

+2
Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
17 days ago
Reply to  Stefan

Of course wars have huge impact on lives. Wars have nothing to do for some American etc who live a peaceful life, but lets say boy from Afghanistan (or even Iraq) have a dream to climb Karakorum, but then suddenly half of his family was killed, and his family property is destroyed. I know what happened in Nanga Parbat. But these people are not organised and official goverments like US which led modern crusade that killed hundreds of thousand or more than million people in Middle East.

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jack
jack
18 days ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

You are so ignorant about Gurkhas.Ok.U can call them British mercenaries ,but its much more than that. Gurkhas initially started when British asked Nepal for help to suppress the rebellion in India.Impressed with their bravery,British asked Nepali gov to send Nepali soldiers to join Gurkha regiment.Nepali Gurkha soldiers have fought along with British soldiers all over the world since 1800s.You may say they r mercenaries,but I dont deny.They get paid to do it,but its not just that.In Nepal,it a tradition in certain communities and they r proud of that.Gurkha soldiers come from certain ethnicities living in the mountains where resources… Read more »

Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
18 days ago
Reply to  jack

As you said he had some sponsors, we all know that and thats a fact. But you also said this: “He left his well paying job to climb mountains”.Thats the point, he earned his money in army service. He wasnt just an ordinary Ghurka, he was in British armed forces (so he was well payed), and by his words he was in Afghanistan. Now imagine some boy in Afghanistan or Iraq who has a dream to climb world highest peak. But he can not fulfill his dream because half of his family was killed and because of that his life… Read more »

jack
jack
17 days ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

Do u know how much people get paid while they r in Gurkha regiment? Its a really well paid for Nepalese standard,but not a lot if u compare it with other British people.And to climb 14 8K mountains,it way above his income.He remortgaged his house.He had some sponsors.He crowdfunded the money. A boy in Afghanistan or Iran may not be able to climb coz of their circumstances.Blame their goverment(which u did).Why hatred towards Nims? Nims didnt cause Afghan war.He was in British force and he was told to go there.Even if there was no Afghan war,he would have made money.And… Read more »

Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
17 days ago
Reply to  jack

Listen, i can blame these goverments (example Pakistan) for some stuffs. I openly criticised Pakistani goverment for not sponsoring mountanieers like Ali Sadpara and other high altitude climbers in Pakistan. I explained in another post why some of these goverments are corrupted (millitary dictatorships and often changes of goverments\regimes), and why West dont want strong Islamic countries. But i can not blame Iraq or Afghanistan for war, these countries didnt choose war so i can only blame US or other Western countries who choose to impose bloody wars in these countries. But can you blame US/West for the chaos on… Read more »

jack
jack
17 days ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

Don’t think we r here to discuss about Western involvement in Middle east.This website in not about that. There is a place for that,but not this forum.

+1
Jade
Jade
17 days ago
Reply to  jack

Lol just thinking same thing..how did Middle East wars come into this conversation ?!?

+2
asho
asho
18 days ago
Reply to  Ruben

Have you ever been to one of those mountains??You seem to be a keyboard warrior.

+1
Michèle
Michèle
17 days ago
Reply to  Ruben

You are so wrong about Nims. If you had bothered to take the time to listen to and read the numerous interviews with him that are available, you would realize how wrong you are. And you completely misinterpreted his motivation for wanting to have this achievement for Nepal and the Sherpas. Your lack of knowledge about the man, and what motivates him, is embarrassing for you.

+1
Max89
Max89
18 days ago

I think people are mixing different things here… Nationalities… Individuals… Everyone is different, as stated by someone above. But I believe one thing: if the climber community would have given the choice about who they prefer to summit first, Ali Sadpara or Nirmal Purja, I believe that a vast majority would have voted for the first one. It´s not about nationalities, but about the values of individuals. It has nothing to do with Nepal or Pakistan as a country. Ali Sadpara represented very much what a true mountaineer should be like, in all dimensions. I also don’t understand why Nims… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Max89
Uttam
Uttam
18 days ago
Reply to  Max89

Max 89, what do you mean? How dare you say, if the climbing community had preferred Ali Sadpara over Nirmal Purja to be the first one to be on the winter summit of K2? WTF! In mountaineering, it is not an election or voting that decides the outcome? If the Pakistan government had wanted Ali Sadpara or another Pakistani mountaineer to be the first person to climb K2 in winter, it could have banned all foreign climbers from climbing K2 until it had accomplished the goal of putting a Pakistani mountaineer on top of K2 in winter first and only… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Uttam
Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
18 days ago
Reply to  Uttam

Tell me one thing would he be able to do these things without sponsorship and past connections from army. Lets say the harsh truth the guy was a British mercenarie and that brought him many benefits. When you dont have the money you dont climb high peaks. Why most of the eight thousanders that Ali climbed were in Pakistan? Because it was cheaper for him to climb Karakorum peaks and many times he worked as HAP on these mountains.

0
jack
jack
18 days ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

Sadly,Ali was a high altitude like most Sherpas.I m sure he was an excellent climber and seem a very nice guy. The same goes to many Sherpas who mostly climb mountains in Nepal. Thats unfortunate situation coz they were born in poor countries.Why r u comparing between Ali and Nims?Nims said Ali was like a big brother to him and he has nothing but respect and love towards Ali. Is it Nims fault that Ali didnt have own sponsorship and was climbing as Snorri’s HAP? As I said before,being Gurkhas doesn’t bring u perks and connection.Gurkhas were not even allowed… Read more »

Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
18 days ago
Reply to  jack

I never said that. The fault is directly at Pakistani goverment, cuz they are corrupted goverment. Its a shame that they never sponsored Ali, and now they need to be silent. But another question is why are they corrupted? Because many military dictatorships ruled Pakistan over years, and that causes instability in the country and region, and their country and economy could not develop in a proper way. We can compare Turkey and Pakistan. Over last few decades military dictatorships ruled Turkey (like Egypt now). But in early 2000s Erdogan and his goverment gave Turkey strenght. I dont say that… Read more »

Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
18 days ago
Reply to  Max89

You said the truth, but many dont want to hear that truth. Ali Sadpara came from poor background like many other Sherpas. Nirmal Purja was a British mercenarie and served for British army. He couldnt done these things without connections and sponsorship (helicopter from base camp to base camp etc). Ali and Sherpas (or other HAP) didnt have these advantages.

+1
anon
anon
18 days ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

Being in the British Army doesn’t earn any extraordinary perks for you, either in Britain or Nepal. The Nepalese government could care less. There are so many Nepalese working in the British Armed Forces and some have won medals like the Victoria cross. They make headlines some days and that’s it! Nirmal Purja may appear cocky but he’s a self-made man too. He’s forever mentioning that he grew up in a very poor household and couldn’t even afford shoes to wear. He made a name for himself for being the First Gurkha in its 200 year old history to work… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
18 days ago

Looks like Mr Nazir Sabir has lost it. There is so far no basis to his accusation as far as anyone can see. What could be his motivation for making this baseless accusation now? The ten-member Nepali team reached the K2 summit on Jan 16 around 5 pm local time. It would get colder and dark soon – with the weather window snapping shut – and they still had a long long way to descend – down the tricky blue ice – before they could rest for the night at Camp 3. How logical is it to surmise that the… Read more »

Last edited 18 days ago by Uttam
Bulgarian seaman
Bulgarian seaman
17 days ago
Reply to  Uttam

What they will benefit? If everyone after them start succeed the peak in winter, will looks like not so big deal, but if only three companies succeed and so far no one else: They will be the Ones at least until next year, a huge advantage from the business prospects. 1.All future clients will look for thoose three. “The professionals” 2.The movie, the books, the pics, there will be one story…their story, as well as all incomes. 3.Tension amongst them(companies)? Why … because only one SST of these companies organize clients to repeat the success straight after team of the… Read more »

F v
F v
17 days ago

No one. Colin o bradly (check his IG) was the first! man who reached 7200m after record, on 4 feb. 2 pm. There was the end of a rope. A one hour later JP arrived en they climbed to C3. Colin put up the tent he brought by himself. Dawa didn’t send a sherpa on 2 or 3 feb to check ropes and tents at C3.

0
Bulgarian seaman
Bulgarian seaman
17 days ago
Reply to  F v

At that time all of them were underway, checks have to be done before not after the event, or to be advised straight. We are not sure about the ropes, tents … etc . Do you like to continue forward or not. At this point everyone make his own decision. Furthermore since very beginning I am asking for ROUTE CAUSE ANALYSIS to be carried out. The people who has idea about Safety Management System will understand what I am asking for. 1. Why did had happened? 2. 3. I can ask them the right questions but no one will reply,… Read more »

JOdie
JOdie
18 days ago

I believe that there’s a strong chance sabotage involved. A lot of money and fame at stake and it wouldn’t take anything to cut the ropes and if anyone said anything later, simply blame conditions. No, there is no definitive proof that I know of but who’s gonna know? Only the trio who made it up that far would find the ropes had been cut/removed would know and they aren’t here anymore to tell what really happened. I really hope that answers can be found because it’s not out of the realm of possibility that the nepalis, for a number… Read more »

asho
asho
18 days ago
Reply to  JOdie

Do you believe in Karma.The nepalis live by that rule.The three died cause their ego was too big to swallow.

+2
Sean
Sean
18 days ago

His father literally tried to get him to climb without oxygen. Ugh, what a tough way to remember your father. I bet his old man is looking down on him and saying “I’m so glad you didn’t listen to my dumb ass”. RIP Ali

+1
Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
17 days ago
Reply to  Sean

So now you are insulting Ali. No one know what in details what happened.

0
Samson Simon Sharaf
18 days ago

I have tried to piece events though scanty and often contradictory. I also had detailed discussion with Nazir Sabir and Sher Khan, two accomplished alpine style climbers of Pakistan. Nazir had experience of Shoulder and Bottle Neck in 1977 but his best was the spectacular alpine style ascent of K2s West/South West Ridge in 1981 with Peter Habbler. Sher Khan abandoned his summit bid on K2 in 1987 when his Japanese climbing partner Suzuki fell to death from the Seracs on Bottle Neck to edge of Godwin Austin Glacier. Both know K2 well.   I shared base camp with Sher… Read more »

Jess
Jess
17 days ago

I can only answer part of your third question, based on things I’ve read. From the updates on John Snorri’s Instagram account (www.instagram.com/john.snorri – I’m not sure who was updating it – I think his wife was, based on what she learnt from his cook and others at base camp), it’s clear he had a sat phone. He was supposed to call her from the summit. Permission also had to be gained from the Pakistan Government to try to track the sat phone, but for some reason tracking it wasn’t successful. I don’t know enough about technology etc to know… Read more »

F v
F v
18 days ago

I don’ t believe they removed any. Mingma david posted a picture of the climb above the serac, there were 4-5 ropes to count. So also old ropes from summer expeditions. Mingma g posted a video he made with his 2 team mates at the summit, when Nims team was already decending. And the BBC journalist could have written the different story (Ali pushed Sajid to continue instead of retreating) by misunderstanding Sajid. I very much hope they find the bodies these days in the favourable wheather. So it can give answers to the relatives and friends. And then it’s… Read more »

Blake
18 days ago

I think these comments about removing the ropes thus contributing to their deaths is doing those who perished a massive injustice. They don’t need people to make excuses for them. All strong climbers who knew the risks.

+2
humanitarian
humanitarian
18 days ago

Hope we find some clues / evidence as to what happened that night
Nothing seems to be tallying up

0
Last edited 18 days ago by humanitarian
asho
asho
17 days ago

Icelander Chieftan John Snorri larger than life senseless suicidal maniac crusade with Ali and Mohr in the vicinity of toposphere .

0
Anabell
Anabell
17 days ago

That’s really bad journalism.& public relation. Could the accused even speak before publication? That leaves the impression of envy and resentment & does not do justice to the wonderful sport. Terrible to denigrate a great historical achievement like that. And only the people you try to damage with it, instead of arousing interest in this sport. That doesn‘t make friends but stomach pains 😢

+1
chris
chris
17 days ago

Condolences to the families involved for their losses. Pakistan, Chile, and Iceland are mourning right now- lets be respectful to them as they may be reading. It seems the accusation may have some truth to it- in another article the Sherpa’s are quoted as saying they skipped the normal route from camp 3 to camp 4 and took a vertical wall instead. https://english.onlinekhabar.com/nepalis-on-k2-climber-narrates-their-journey-to-mountaineering-hall-of-fame.html From the article: “In the summer, it takes you four hours to reach camp 4 from 3, but in the winter, we got lost. We encountered crevasse after crevasse, after which we decided to climb a near-vertical… Read more »

F v
F v
17 days ago
Reply to  chris

Very interesting. It could declare why it took so long for JS to reach C4, otherwise it is also still possible they bivouacked at 7650m. Maybe a stupid question but has the pakistani army permission (or not needed) to search on the north (chinese) side of the mountain?

0
i wonder...
i wonder...
17 days ago

Quote from Nims’s facebook post where he’s talking about supplementary oxygen:

“There are many cases, where climbers have claimed no O2 summits but followed our trail that we blazed and used the ropes and lines that we had fixed. Some of which are widely known within the inner climbing community. What is classified as fair means?”

0
Last edited 17 days ago by i wonder...
Jess
Jess
17 days ago
Reply to  i wonder...

a) Nims has gone out of his way and risked his life to save others on mountains. His point in his post was about the inconsistency of people criticising those using Oxygen. He was genuinely asking a question about “fair means”.
b) In any case, Nims and his team left the summit first, leaving Mingma G and the two others in his team to have the summit to themselves and go down afterwards.

+1
asho
asho
17 days ago

The father of 5 little children Ego maniac John Snorri crusades Ali and Chilean to other World.A perfect title.

0
Sean
Sean
17 days ago
Reply to  asho

Well said. My heart breaks for these children.

0
Don Paul
Don Paul
17 days ago

Here’s another theory of Atanas Skatov’s death. There are so many old fixed ropes up there, the camera crew couldn’t even tell which ones were from this year. It sounds like he was at an anchor changing from one rope to another. No doubt he was mentally exhausted from the tent situtation the night before, wasn’t methodical at the anchor, and got unclipped somehow. He was accompanied by a personal climbing guide, who was taking of video of him rappelling instead of belaying him. https://eliasaikaly.com/atanas-skatov-what-happened-on-k2/ I wish someone could remove all those old ropes and fixed gear, especially in the… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
17 days ago
Reply to  Don Paul

Don, you wrote: [clip] He [Atanas] was accompanied by a personal climbing guide, who was taking video of him rapelling instead of belaying him. [clip]. Are you sure Atanas didn’t request his climbing guide to shoot video of him going down? Sometimes clients ask their guide to take their video/photographs in unexpected places, you know, and the latter, expecting big fat tips at the end of the expedition, often happily obliges. You imply that the climbing guide should have been belaying Atanas, as the latter rapelled down a fixed line [it was a fixed line, wasn’t it?]. I always thought… Read more »

Last edited 17 days ago by Uttam
Don Paul
Don Paul
17 days ago
Reply to  Uttam

He was trying to climb K2 without an ice axe, from everything I’ve read.

0
Uttam
Uttam
17 days ago
Reply to  Don Paul

Who was trying to climb K2 without an ice axe?

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
16 days ago
Reply to  Don Paul

Don Paul, stop repeating unsubstantiated hogwash. Skatov certainly had an ice axe, it is required equipment. All that was said was that he did not self-arrest with an ice axe. If he was descending on fixed ropes or rappelling his ice axe was likely in his pack and unavailable. As Angela noted, whether it is good practice or not, many climbers don’t have their ice axe out when they are on fixed ropes.

+1
Sean
Sean
17 days ago

I believe they’re still alive. Badly frostbitten, but definitely still alive. Hang in there!!!

0
Nat
Nat
17 days ago

https://twitter.com/moirahahmad/status/1361234953011408896?s=19
There you go, now all of u can stop with the accusations….

0
Samson Simon Sharaf
17 days ago
Reply to  Nat

To add insult to injury, the subject was Nazir Sabir but not interviewed by BBC

0
Nat
Nat
17 days ago

No one said he was…he wrote an article for the BBC . There is a big difference

0
Samson Simon Sharaf
17 days ago

A peep into plight of HAPs in Pakistan. This story was also narrated to me by Sardar of expedition Chacha Muhammad Hussain, the second porter who helped Ali Mendip carry Bhul on his back from a Nanga Parbat disaster before first summit of K2 by cheating Italian climbers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28696985

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Samson Simon Sharaf
17 days ago

Ali Mehdi

0
chris
chris
17 days ago

Yes and in 2013 “some people did something” on Nanga Parbat to western climbers as well.
Lets leave the past behind us and move on.

0
Phipu
Phipu
16 days ago

I don’t get the whole discussion. Every team has the right to take down all equipment. They don’t have to leave the ropes there to support someone else’s summit attempt. Of course it would be nice to leave it. But there is no law, not even a “gentlemen’s agreement” to my knowledge. If you climb in winter above 8’000m and you rely on someone else to make your live easier without communicating with them, that’s bad judgement. If this is your plan A and you don’t have a plan B (like bringing your own ropes, having the group size to… Read more »

Phipu
Phipu
16 days ago
Reply to  Phipu

To clarify: I meant that they relied on the ropes being there without knowing it for sure and not having a plan B. And of course always the possibility that something is broken after two weeks in this conditions.

0
so sad
so sad
16 days ago

Sajid is the only one who knows what the circumstances were up until they separated … equipment wise, their physical and mental states

0
Stop Craziness
Stop Craziness
16 days ago

Wow, crazy to read Nazir’s allegations and some of the comments here. On a mountain like K2 that too in winter, no one at an elevation of above 8000M has anything else on their mind except survival. Period. Devious thoughts cannot and do not cross anybody’s minds. The keyboard warriors here seem to be having a field day with all kinds of wild comments. The fact is, anyone attempting these big mountains know well what they are getting into. They are no kids needing supervision on what’s right or wrong. No one forces them into doing anything against their will.… Read more »

Benny Smith
Benny Smith
16 days ago
Reply to  Stop Craziness

Unfortunately the controversy around the first ascent of K2 was just about that: Ali Mehdi and Walter Bonatti were forced to spend a night at 8100 m because Compagnoni and Lacedelli inentionally moved the camp higher so the two couldnt participate in the summit bid.
So it is somehow absurd to state, that envious behavior above 8000m is impossible.
But still we all have to wait for hard facts and evidence before blaming anybody prematurely.

0