Tomaz Rotar: It’s Time to Tell the Truth about K2

K2 Winter 8000ers
Tomaz Rotar enters a tent in C3 after abandoning his summit push. Photo: Tomaz Rotar

Tomaz Rotar has a lot to say about his experience on winter K2. He was the one who departed Camp 3 on February 4 and reached an “impassable crevasse” that forced him back — and probably saved his life. Besides Sajid Sadpara, he was the last person to see John Snorri, Juan Pablo Mohr, and Ali Sadpara. And he suffered during the chaotic night in Camp 3 without a tent of his own.

But that is only the last episode in a series of events that started two years ago. “I have been tempted to let it all go and forget about everything,” the Slovenian climber told ExplorersWeb in an exclusive interview. “However, John Snorri saved my life twice. Telling the truth is the least I owe him in return.”

Rotar was one of the few climbers in Base Camp this year who was not new to winter K2. The previous winter, he and John Snorri were clients of Mingma G’s expedition to the mountain.

Bitter memories from 2020

“After one-and-a-half months together last year, I can say that Mingma G is not a person I can trust. Our expedition was canceled unexpectedly because of Mingma G’s alleged illness. Snorri asked to remain and climb only with the Sherpas, but then one of them said that he had injured a leg. In fact, he limped when we were around but then ran around perfectly once back in Skardu.

“I could speak for hours about what happened, but the conclusion is that we paid €80,000 and got no refund at all when the expedition was aborted without our agreement. All the equipment and kerosene, etc. that we bought were left there. Some of it was used this winter for Mingma G’s own summit success.”

John Snorri and Tomaz Rotar in 2020. Photo: Apricot Tours

Snorri later shared this whole story on social media, and Rotar wrote his own article. “But nothing happened,” he said.

One year later, both the former leader, Mingma G, and his clients returned to winter K2. Mingma and Snorri were leaders of their own teams, while Rotar joined the Seven Summit Treks group.

“Mingma never said anything about the previous expedition. In fact, I never spoke to him –- I said hello to him once as we crossed paths on the mountain, and that’s all.”

Snorri left out of the secret summit push

Rotar maintains Snorri was not told the truth when, in Camp 2 on January 14, he asked the Nepali climbers in Camp 3 if they were going to the summit, and they said no.

“Snorri told me that he had spoken to Mingma G on the mountain and that he had told him that they were not going for the summit, but just to check the tents at Camp 3.”

It was Sajid Sadpara who found out on the following day when he met Sergi Mingote. But by the time Sajid returned and told Ali Sadpara and Snorri, it was too late to join the push. Frustrated, they descended from Camp 2. “I can’t help thinking that if John had joined the Nepalis, he may have summited that day and come back alive,” Rotar said.

Mingma G acknowledged to ExplorersWeb this week that the secrecy was a competitive move to give Nepalis the chance to scoop this coveted summit first. But Rotar says that the secrecy continued, despite Mingma G’s insistence that “Once we are done with the summit, it doesn’t matter to us who climbs later.”

Said Rotar: “When they returned from the summit, there was no information. No one shared pictures or information about the climb.”

K2 at night. Photo: Chhang Dawa Sherpa

“The first summit pictures we saw were those sent to us from home after the Nepalis posted them on social media,” Rotar continued. “We had no information about what lay ahead.” Notably, they heard nothing about the huge crevasse that eventually stopped him at around 8,000m.

The second push and Camp 3 chaos

After the Nepalis summited, high winds hit K2 for nearly two weeks. No one left Base Camp. Climbers didn’t do acclimatization rounds, and SST didn’t check or carry supplies to the camps. But in early February, the promise of a new weather window put everybody on the move.

“We had a meeting with Dawa and Arnold Coster (on February 1) to detail the summit plan,” said Rotar. “It consisted of going to Camp 1 on February 2, Camp 2 on February 3. Then on February 4, we were to proceed to Camp 3, rest, then continue to the summit with no Camp 4. We had to somehow manage to top out and return, hopefully back to Camp 2, as early as possible on February 5, because the winds would increase progressively that day. That required a very fast pace. I have climbed K2 in summer, so I know what that is.”

Colin O’Brady with John Snorri in the background. Photo: Elia Saikaly

“As a result, Coster gave strict instructions about pace: Those who were unable to get to Camp 1 in six hours should turn back; they [wouldn’t be able to manage] K2’s upper slopes in such a short weather window.

“But several people ignored that instruction. If they hadn’t, there would have been fewer climbers in Camp 3, and fewer problems with the tents.

“In addition, we spoke about the Bottleneck and the route’s features, but there was no mention of any particular obstacle, such as the crevasse.”

Rotar also recalls “lots of problems with the O2 systems, with regulators exploding and the bottles’ pressure being too low. Stoves also malfunctioned, although the devices, and the mix of butane and propane, was supposed to work  at -40ºC.” However, there was no shortage of O2, he says.

The longest day

On February 4, Tomaz Rotar was feeling strong and optimistic. He reached Camp 3 at around 3 pm on a beautiful day. Ahead of him was Colin O’Brady, who had sped ahead of his two Sherpas, and Juan Pablo Mohr, climbing at a really good pace, even without O2.

Shortly before C3, he caught up with Tamara Lunger, who said that she was too cold to continue and wanted to turn around. Rotar told this to Mohr as soon as he met him, and Mohr retraced his steps and tried in vain to convince Lunger to continue.

Climbers at the Black Pyramid on the way to Camp 3. Photo: Elia Saikaly

O’Brady’s Sherpas pitched a tent but wouldn’t let Rotar in. “Then I asked Juan Pablo [Mohr] for shelter, which he kindly agreed to. In the tent, I did my best to massage his feet, which were getting seriously cold. Eventually, however, Tamara showed up –- she had changed her mind. And she was JP’s partner, so I had to go out.

“Again, I asked to enter O’Brady’s tent but was denied entrance by the Sherpas. Luckily, the American ordered his Sherpas to let me in. ‘We cannot leave him outside to die,’ he said. When I entered, there were six other people inside. More climbers and their Sherpas had kept arriving in camp after dark. O’Brady also exchanged some bitter radio calls with Base Camp. I have to say I owe that guy my toes, if not my life.

“A similar situation was occurring in John [Snorri]’s tent, which he was supposed to share with Ali and Sajid, but ended up also sharing with three or four other people. In such circumstances, one cannot perform the basic chores to prepare for a summit push, such as changing socks, stretching legs, melting water to hydrate, and cooking.

Between Camp 3 and the crevasse

“Still, we went for the summit. I left the tent at around 9 pm, and I was later than other members in my team, but faster: As I went, I passed Bernhard Lippert and Josette Valloton, with their Sherpas. Bernhard was too cold, and Josette said her regulator was not working.  As for me, the Sherpa assigned to me, Pasang, said he was afraid he was suffering from frostbite and was not able to go further than Camp 3. But Noel Hanna’s feet were too cold and he decided to stay in Camp 3, so I made a deal with his Sherpa, Temba, who would go with me.

“Eventually, we were at the head of the troop…until we reached that huge crevasse near 8,000m. In the night, we saw no way to pass it. Some 150 meters to the right, we saw a rope across it, but the rope was definitely not safe; it was not even tense. I looked for a ladder, but there was none. I waited for some time, looking for a passage in vain. Temba then had problems with his O2 system. He tried to fix it but was unsuccessful and said he had to turn around. Some minutes later, not having found a passage, I followed him down.

Route up from Camp 3 in daylight. Frame from a video by Noel Hanna.

“Soon I passed John Snorri, looking tired and going slow, but determined. I explained the situation, told him that there was no way to cross it, but he insisted: ‘I will try to cross it.’ Then I said to myself, what the heck, and turned around and went after him, back to the crevasse. I took him to the point where the rope was, and again, I saw no way to cross it. I said: ‘I can’t jump across it, I have to go down, good luck.’ I left him there, waiting for his mates. It was the last time I saw him.

“As I proceeded down, I met Ali Sadpara and sometime later, Juan Pablo [Mohr], without O2. And much later, Sajid [Sadpara]. Sajid was wearing no O2 mask at the time, but he told me that he was having problems with his regulator. He asked to borrow mine since I was on my way down, but I had to refuse since I still needed the oxygen.

Tomaz Rotar, exhausted back in Camp 3. Photo by Lakpa Dendi (left), who was climbing with Atanas Skatov.

“I reached C3 and entered a tent where there were two Sherpas: Lakpa Dendi, climbing with Skatov, and Pasang. They gave me some tea and left toward BC. I took a rest, but then forced myself to continue back down. On the way, I met Antonios, who told me about Skatov’s accident. Shocked, I kept going down. I really do not recall every moment, I was so tired. I made it back to Base Camp in the night. I remember I sat down at the table in the dining tent and passed out right there. Someone took me back to my tent because I woke up in the morning in full summit clothes and boots but somehow inside a sleeping bag.

“Then it was the long wait, and the search, and the lack of news. Coster and Dawa were worried sick because they could not contact the summit group on the radio. Dawa also apologized for the problems that occurred at Camp 3. Otherwise, he paced BC, glued to the radio, calling insistently and looking up the mountain.

Base camp crew members worried about the lack of news from Snorri, Sadpara, and Mohr. Photo: Tomaz Rotar

Conclusions

“The lack of tents was a serious problem, as was the malfunction of O2 systems and stoves. During the night in Camp 3, we used all the available O2, as far as I know. And yet, if you asked me if I would climb with Seven Summit Treks again, I would say yes. I climbed Kangchenjunga with them, and my experience was good.

“As for the ropes, there was as usual on K2 a mix of old and new ropes, and the rope-fixing team used sometimes new other times old ropes. On my own summit attempt, I didn’t see any ropes about to break. Of course, you take precautions such as clipping to more than one rope and also try to distribute your weight not only on the rope but also on your crampons.

“Back in 2018 [on K2], after I had a fall when a rope snapped and I reported this back in Base Camp, Garrett Madison’s team refixed part of the route with excellent, bright orange Diamond rope. These ropes are still there and still strong –- they’re definitely better than the rigid but cheaper Korean ropes commonly used.

“What I fail to understand is lack of information about the proper route and its features. Since I returned, I have been reading everything that was published about the expedition, trying to figure out what went wrong –- but I still don’t get it.

“How did everyone on the Nepali team cross the crevasse? I have read Mingma and Sajid’s accounts, and the more I read, the less I understand. The ropes started, as Mingma said, 200 to 300m above Camp 3, but then he states that they fixed everything, including the crevasse that they somehow crossed.

“But the route we all followed on the second push ended at a real void. Sajid said there were no ropes where they jumped over it, but I can’t believe they just jumped that huge crevasse –- they must have found a different passage, although I really looked around and saw no option. It was dark, of course, but I still can’t solve the riddle.

“Maybe the Nepalis fixed two lines of ropes, the one leading to a dead end and the second that took them to the summit?”

“But then, Sajid said that they knew about that crevasse before heading for the summit, and yet they were following the same route I had. Finally, if the route was off the normal line and closer to the Cesen route, why weren’t we informed? During the briefing, there was no mention of two lines or ropes or any crevasse.

“As I said, it is the overall secrecy and lack of information we had before our own summit push that has me most confused. I am juggling theories and possibilities but beyond that, all I can I hope is that there’ll be a further investigation about the unclear aspects of this climb.”

+6

About the Author

Angela Benavides

Angela Benavides

Senior journalist, published author and communication consultant. Specialized on high-altitude mountaineering, with an interest for everything around the mountains: from economics to geopolitics. After five years exploring distant professional ranges, I returned to ExWeb BC in 2018. Feeling right at home since then!

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Dave
Dave
1 month ago

This is a really useful account of what went on regarding the tent situation. I fear that there is a level of ‘bitterness’ (I’m not sure this is the most appropriate term, but I’m struggling to think of the best word to describe it) between him and Mingma G which may have an influence on his account as it relates to the team that summited.

+10
F v
F v
1 month ago

Looks like they started following the summer route ropes, and a few ended up on the right path. It clears why they wasted precious time reaching C4. At least Sona from SST knew the route and his features.

+2
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  F v

No, they didn’t start following summer route, when comparing John Snorri Tracker (after ignoring the aberrations/ errors) it make a clear path that follows much more to the left (towards Cassen Route) than trackers from summer expeditions so they know where to go. The problem is that if there was not constant fixed rope from C3 they easily lost it in darkness. It is possible that they just turn to right, towards the summer route much earlier so this is why they came across the crevasse just after C4 but they pass the first crevasse before C4 without problem, you… Read more »

Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul

I confirmed from Sajid. They all knew the new winter route and were briefed in base camp about it by SST and Sona Sherpa. They followed the new route as the landscape of summer route was full of icefalls and danger. According to Sajid, even Tomaz took the same route and also briefed him about the crevasse ahead of Camp 4.

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago

Samson, according to Rotar’s account he met crossed paths with Sajid only when Rotar was returning to Camp 3, and Rotar says Sajid was the last person ascending that he encountered before Camp 3. So Rotar might have been briefed as Sajid says, but how would Sajid know what route Rotar actually took on his ascent? He couldn’t know firsthand, but I suppose he could have been told afterwards by Rotar’s sherpa Temba, or by someone else who (1) was on the new route and (2) saw Rotar on the new route too. So is there anyone else who is… Read more »

barbara
barbara
1 month ago

thanx for this interview. the tentsituation at c3 was at the edge of going deadly. for me it seems that the lack of awareness for the dangers and higher risks after the 2 weeks of really bad weather and particularily the short weather window framed the possibilities of what then happened. it’s spooky. – and “the” truth remains of many riddles …

+3
Yuriy
Yuriy
1 month ago

Nasty Sherpas didn’t put the ladder for others to cross… Well at least Rotar was smart enough not to try if he wasn’t sure of his abilities.
Sajid is very young and it’s a lot of pressure on him now, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he wanted to paint a picture that made us inclined to believe that his father and Snorri might have summited saying they had crossed the crevasse and were on the way to bottleneck so their demise was not in vain. Unfortunately it won’t bring them back whether we know the truth or not.

+6
Max Madera
Max Madera
1 month ago
Reply to  Yuriy

Do you think they were carrying a ladder? If so, do you think they would take it back after the summit?

+2
Yuriy
Yuriy
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

I was just sarcastic- – Rotar was looking for a ladder at the crevasse, that what he said. Nobody would drag a ladder up there.

+7
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Yuriy

Yuriy you make a good point about why Sajid would say that Ali, Snorri, and JP Mohr might have summitted K2 summit and met with fatal mishaps on their way down. But, of course, there is no proof.  One point, nobody has discussed is whether there was any sort of race/competition between Snorri’s team and JP Mohr (who was climbing solo) as to who would get to the summit first as they set out from Camp 3, with this building up above the Bottleneck, as they neared the summit?  If this dynamic was at play, then I wonder if it… Read more »

aniqah zeeshan
aniqah zeeshan
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

Loved reading your point of view..makes a lot of sense. I doubt we’ll ever know what really happened up there but with the summit frenzy you’re absolutely right that there was much competition, anxiety and secrecy!

+6
Farukh Ali
Farukh Ali
1 month ago

We need more people like Colin O’Brady on mountains who care for other people’s lives and are not selfish to let them die in cold outside. I believe most of the international climbers were part of SST expedition. If Tomaz needed a space in tent, O’Brady’s SST sherpas should have let him in, that’s a common courtesy when you are working as a team under one banner to look out for each other.

+41
Last edited 1 month ago by Farukh Ali
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

Everyone on 4th February in Camp 3 was from SST expedition except Ali Sadpara, John Snorri and Sajid Sadpara. Colin O’Brady and his Sherpas was from SST as well.

The problem was that there was about 20 people for just 4 tents (including one small 2-person tent)

+3
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago

This is very much like the story of the blind men and the elephant, with a bit of the classic movie Rashomon as well. For those not familiar with this story: Imagine several blind men who all meet an elephant at the same time, but each touches only one part– one the tusks, another the ears, another the legs, the tail…etc. Each has their own reality and “truth” about what an elephant is. Even worse, with the protagonists here are suffering from hallucinations, O2 deprivation, sleep deprivation, physical fatigue, time differences (eg experiencing the route at night or daylight), multiple… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 month ago

Agree with Dave. Apparently according to several accounts there was a previous disagreement between Mr Snorri and Mr Mingma G – no one will ever really understand that previous situation now. However, it seems odd to me that people would ‘go public’ with their criticisms of another person which might affect their livelihood then on a later expedition not understand why the other person did not want to talk to them, help them, and invite them to join their expedition? Maybe the other person thought that they might be publicly criticized again? In this particular case, maybe Mingma G already… Read more »

Dave
Dave
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

Just to be 100% clear, I’m not in any way suggesting any malice. In the situation that they were all in, poorly rested, lacking oxygen etc, there are going to be gaps in memory and hazy facts. Sajid admitted to such. In such a situation it is always possible (though not necessary) that the past context ‘fills in the gaps’, leading to an alternative conclusion.

+1
Last edited 1 month ago by Dave
Don Paul
Don Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

I think the slack rope was the rope the Nepalis’ rapped down. It solves all the mysteries except why the February group didn’t use it. Nims brought 6 mm parachute cord. I have never used anything like that and thought 8.5 was too small for comfort. This was really the only detail of the Minga G interview that bothered me. He says there was a rope, and it turns out there was one, but for some reason it looked dangerous.

0
Farukh Ali
Farukh Ali
1 month ago

Thank you for bringing us another article about K2, Angela. Finally, it’s established that Nepalese summit team didn’t want anyone else to join them for the summit thus, the secrecy. Although, if John Snorri’s team had joined them, it would rather be of assistance as they could have shared rope fixing task and trail breaking etc. Just like having 6 extra hands and feet at work. Alex, Tamara, JP and Sergi were also up there during that time. If Nepalese team had shown some co-operation and come out of their nationalistic approach to do things secretly, maybe it would have… Read more »

Hello
Hello
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

Nims came to the mountain with his own agenda to make this a Nepali summit for Nepal. Sadly but the promoted unity and brotherhood is only related to the Nepali. So, they had K2 World Cup and forgot that mountain climbing is not a regular sport. It’s too deadly to be taken as a World Cup and human life is much more valuable. They failed to understand it as their pride came first.

+14
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Hello

“Team” was obviously a supremely important part of Nims strategy, perhaps because in special forces work training and operations are always around teams. A team is not just a group of people who decide to get together, it is a group that has already trained and tested together so they trust each other completely. Even very competent people who decide to do something together are not a team. A team already works as one. Acting as a team is not something to work on while climbing K2 in winter. When Nims and Mingma G. decided to team together I think… Read more »

Mikael Sandager
Mikael Sandager
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Good points. Important observations. Agree on these psychologically factors. Not to underestimate.

+2
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

On the 16th January, John Snorri’s team was not ready to make any summit push, they didn’t have acclimatization, they reported missing oxygen bottle after the storm, his weather report predicted bad weather so they even not think about pushing to summit. I understand Nepalese that they didn’t want anyone with them to slow them down, they didn’t have to share plans with anyone, they was independent teams. JP and Sergi was in low Camp 3 and they know about the summit push but as they planned to climb without O2, they didn’t have acclimatization yet and to climb with… Read more »

Farukh Ali
Farukh Ali
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul

John Snorri’s team was at the BC a month before other teams arrived. They fixed lines to C1 before anyone else even reached the BC. They may have acclimatized till C2 before that. They planned to spend two nights at C2 on 13th and 14th January and then head to spend a night at C3 on 15th January. Which means they were perfectly ready to summit on 16th Jan if they were informed about the weather. They just had 1 oxygen bottle missing but wouldn’t be an issue because John Snorri didn’t plan to use O2, Ali and Sajid may… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

Farukh, There are several forecasters expeditions use, and they of course pick the one they trust the most. (They pay for these forecasts.) Sometimes they buy more than one forecast service. In this case, it was a forecaster in Katmandu who said the weather would allow a window while the European forecasters (two I believe) both predicted bad weather made the window impossible. Whatever you believe about sharing, I really doubt that Snorri would have been willing to throw out his selected forecaster and base decisions on a new and unknown (to him) Nepali forecaster (who apparently worked for the… Read more »

Farukh Ali
Farukh Ali
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

I completely understand your point. This is new information for me which you just shared. Thank you for that. If you read Mingma G’s interview from few days ago, he said, it was less windier at C3 compared to C2. He was present at C3 and experiencing no winds and best weather for the summit. If he’d informed the people at C2 that I’m witnessing weather with no winds and would probably be going for the summit, who do you think John Snorri would trust? People who are present few 100 meters up at C3 preparing for the summit or… Read more »

lima
lima
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

You don’t get it, do you? How would people who are in the midst of a horrible weather at C2 who are huddled and waiting for the weather to get better join people at C3 where the weather is excellent? It’s not like you can teleport! The people who took a risk and left for C3 at the right time before the ghastly wind came in became the luckier ones. For this reason, the Nepali team has been saying luck has favoured them greatly this time!

+8
Mikael Sandager
Mikael Sandager
1 month ago
Reply to  lima

Totally agree on this one. You warn other climbers (competitors) on dangers, bad weather, news etc and you reply with the truth when asked directly, BUT do you also “warn” others with info about good local weather and suddenly open windows inviting them to push on? Why take these risks of you having the ultimate responsibility of others not from your own team if weather suddenly changes or something happens. You do not owe anybody anything until they ask for your help or they seem to do irresponsible acts. The nepalis was in good Faith.

+6
Bill Bones
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

I dont believe for one moment any other teams of climbers would of acted any differently to the Nepalis, remember K2 had never been climbed in winter, every single team on that mountain wanted the crown of being the first to summit K2 in winter, if Snorri or any other mounteers happened to be ahead of the Nepalis, i think they would of been just as secretative, it was a race to the summit

+12
Telma
Telma
1 month ago
Reply to  Bill Bones

Actually John Snorri said in an interview to Icelandic media that he had asked the Nepalis to let him know if they were going for the push, they had told him that they were not going for the push and thus he continued down from C2. He was annoyed that they had not been truthful, he felt cheated. I think this made him and Ali even more determent to make the summit that it may have clouded their decision making, tragically.

+3
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

Yes, they came to BC the first but was only twice in low Camp 2 at 6550, it is not enough to do summit push without O2 or even if you go with O2 you need a lot of it with very high flow so they do not have enough oxygen. Sitting in Base Camp and in lower Camps not gives you proper acclimatization, they should spend at last one night at 7000m. On 24th January they spend night at about 6800 and still it not allow them to move fast during summit push and they use oxygen straight from… Read more »

Stop Craziness
Stop Craziness
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

In all 8000M peaks, climbers have their own weather sources. Its not about info hiding as all climbers rely on their own sources and if they are with an expedition, it falls on the expedition lead to plan getting weather info. There is always an element of gamble as weather can change any time especially at upper reaches of these big mountains which is why climbers use their judgement and calculations and plan accordingly.

+3
delwyne trefz
delwyne trefz
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

I hope I’m misreading this, but It sounds to me as if nationalistic pride in the realm of winter ascents of 8000m peaks is only alright if the nation involved is not Nepal. I’m thinking about the historic and much-lauded assaults launched by nation-sponsored teams of the past.

+15
explore
explore
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

Well, think about it this way – most of the Western expeditions were always very “nationalistic” (or just patriotic?) in a sense that there was usually a national team, national sponsorship, etc.. Think of the first K2 climb by the Italians (and so many more). I think it’s nothing bad that the Nepal people (who usually helped “from the shadows” in all such past Western attempts) wanted to get at least one big Himalaya prize just for themselves.

+10
Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  explore

The Italian expedition? The two ‘heroes’ should have been tried for manslaughter and jailed, if only the truth wasn’t kept hidden for 50 years!

If you commit immoral or criminal acts you have always been judged, whether it is on a mountain or on the street. Whether you are Nepali or non-Nepali. That’s why the Italians had to hide the truth. And I hope the truth isnt hidden here.

But yes, it is understandable that Nepalis want a patriotic triumph. They made history. If that’s all there is, theres nothing wrong with that.

+9
Last edited 1 month ago by Ron
explore
explore
1 month ago
Reply to  Ron

Ok not the best example, but it’s not about the behavior of the specific people (which I fully agree on), but the style of all these expeditions.

+1
Lenore Jones
Lenore Jones
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

I don’t think it is established in this article that the ten summiters did anything deliberate to exclude anyone else. Rotar is reporting something he read in another article, not anything that he himself experienced. As Dave says, Rotar’s previous experience with Mingma G (which indeed sounds frustrating, although there are reports that Mingma G did go to the hospital when he got home) would have colored his view of anyone else’s reports.

+5
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Farukh Ali

Mingma G has said K2 winter 2020/ 2021 was like a World Cup – they were doing it for Nepal, and their community. It was a race, it was a competition. That much Mingma G has honestly made clear. It was Nepal vs. the rest of the world. Hell, look at the first ascent of Everest (it had UK’s blessing) – Hillary was knighted by the queen herself, but Tenzing was not. Look at the first ascent of K2 – it all had the Italian government’s stamp of approval – the Italian military/army seleted the climbers with the best shot… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Tom
Tom
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

Read the article again. This part:
»Rotar maintains Snorri was not told the truth when, in Camp 2 on January 14, he asked the Nepali climbers in Camp 3 if they were going to the summit, and they said no.Snorri told me that he had spoken to Mingma G on the mountain and that he had told him that they were not going for the summit, but just to check the tents at Camp 3.«
Snorri asked and Mingma G lied. At least that is what is written.

+3
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Tom

Tom, I read that article.

Mingma G has said in his interview with Angela that he never exchanged a word with Snorri nor did they visit each other’s camps on K2. Who to believe: it is Tomaz Rotar’s words against Mingma G’s words, as Snorri and Ali are not around to weigh in on this matter. Somewhere I read Snorri said hi to Mingma G up on K2 somewhere, we don’t know if Mingma G even reciprocated. May be Mingma G didn’t even hear the hi up there, if the wind was blowing.

+7
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

what nonsense … be more specific … and I just might stop it.

+2
Zubdiri
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

Well said!!

+4
S R
S R
1 month ago

Just curious: How do you cross a crevasse without a ladder or jumping? How do you use only ropes but no ladders to cross a crevasse that is 2.5m wide when you are in summit gear?

+2
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  S R

Not possible. You can’t jump over 2.5m at that high
so, option 1: the crevasse was smaller, like 1.5m (you could misjudge the width);
option 2: they found other place to cross it, not that width.

+2
Max Madera
Max Madera
1 month ago
Reply to  S R
Max Madera
Max Madera
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

Take it as a joke.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

Sick! In both meanings.

+1
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

sure, you could do something like that, but this is not JUMPING 😀
and this crevasse looks bigger, like 4m or more

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul

Of course you have to get someone to the other side first…

+1
Don Paul
Don Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  S R

I would take the slack rope, rap or slide down into the crevasse until it became tight, then pull myself up the other side with my jumars. (Tyrolian traverse)

The scariest part of the Rotar interview was that he has had the experience of climbing on a rope that broke. This is really unthinkable. What are these cheap Korean ropes he’s talking about, anyway? If the “slack rope” looked dangerous, then your partners put you on belay with a second rope, using a body belay. JP Mohr supposedly had a rope.

0
Last edited 1 month ago by Don Paul
TMartin
TMartin
1 month ago
Reply to  S R

Refer to Youtube: Sir Edmund Hillary: the Race for Everest (about minute 9). ( the clip shows someone trying to pendulum across a crevass and then the use of ropes to cross).

On some another Everest video (?). there was a clip showing Sherpas setting a modern ladder across a crevass. That clip showed the ‘teamwork’ & the tension (a personal endeavour to overcome fear) involved.

0
Mike
Mike
1 month ago
Reply to  S R

Have you seen “Vertical Limit”??? You take a run with two ice tools and you gun for it, then you make a giant leap and get to the other side! Check it out!

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago

Another question: Sona was on the SST team, and he summited in January. Do people really think he would let other SST sherpas, his coworkers and “brothers” try to make a possibly deadly climb without briefing them about the route and the dangerous obstacles? That is why I think Roland’s friend’s story (on the Sajid Sadpara thread) has some credibility. He said (at least some of ) the sherpa were briefed, with topo maps. Maybe there was failure to communicate to climbers, or all the sherpas; or there were misunderstandings or mistakes made during the climb. But I find it… Read more »

Max Madera
Max Madera
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

I agree with you. But is not only Sona thinking about other sherpa: Nims / Mingma et al. make a living as guides. Many of the climbers were former clients, some were clients (of SST) and some will likely be future clients. Even if only out of egoist (which I believe is not the case: those guys have saved many lives in the mountains) they would never stupidly endanger their future for no reason. They had already won the competition.

+4
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

Exactly right, I agree.

0
Boz Šahin
Boz Šahin
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Is Sona Sherpa the strongest and most capable Sherpa among SST Sherpas?

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Boz Šahin

Sorry, I don’t know. Maybe someone here knows the SST Sherpa?
I did find it interesting that they took only 1 SST sherpa. Was that because SST needed them for their clients? Was he the only one qualified or the one best known to the Nims/Mingma G. team? Or only a token?

+1
F v
F v
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Maybe because Nims needed some spare parts from SST after his loss of gear from C2. Also SST supported the summit attempt by bringing load ferry and ox cilinders to high C3 on the 15th. Sona helped with fixing ropes to C4 so as a gift? he was allowed to join the summit attempt. They knew already he was strong enough he do not slow down the summit attempt.

+1
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Sona helped Mingma G to fix route from C3 to C4 on 15th Feb, he was on Manaslu at the end of October (good acclimatization) so he fully deserved to go up for summit. Other Sherpas from SST was busy with taking equipment up and with rotation with own clients.

0
Lenore Jones
Lenore Jones
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Anyway Sajid said he knew about it.

+1
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Lenore Jones

Exactly. Sajid confirmed he was briefed. If Nepali team lied, since Sajid was in the same team of Snorri, he would definitely know about it. Sajid didn’t say about the lying thing. Nepali team surely kept certain things secret within their team but to say they lied is something else… Sajid would have known about it and talked about it if not to media to his friends. Samon Sharaf who is actively commenting in articles was able to get a direct info from Sajid.

+3
ALEX
ALEX
1 month ago

Nims would do everything for self promotion, and Nepalis didn’t want anyone else on summit except of them. They would share information after the summit if this is not true. People lives would probably be saved if they shared info about the route. This mustn’t be forgotten!

+5
Abs
Abs
1 month ago
Reply to  ALEX

Alex, I agree to the part where Nims would do anything for self-promotion – but as per my reply below to Jack – they (or he) was under no obligation to bring other climber’s along or share information while still making a massive effort to reach the top – why would he be thinking of others when he (All 10) are sniffing the summit so close on their way up?

Summit fever is real – it makes you do crazy things. Just accept this as part of that phenomenon.

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Abs

Well here is the really irritating (to some people) thing about Nims: He is new to mountaineering, he sets crazy goals that he manages to achieve, he proves his critics (and he has many) wrong by achieving those crazy goals, he has never had a climbing partner or client die on one of his climbs, and he even has interrupted his climbs to help people who need it. So damn irritating! But he needs to make a living and initially he needed financing (after mortgaging or selling his home)…and he is also very good at promoting himself and his team… Read more »

Abs
Abs
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

haha mate .. that’s correct .. so damn irritating that other’s experiences aren’t the same!

+1
Lenore Jones
Lenore Jones
1 month ago
Reply to  ALEX

Sajid said he knew about the route, but the crevasse had widened.

+1
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  ALEX

Sajid confirmed that he was briefed and he knew about the crevasse… we are just going round and round…

+2
jack
jack
1 month ago

It seems Tomaz is being vindictive of Mingma G for last year fiasco. Minga G was sick with Pneumonia so,why was he angry ? What if Minga G died last year if he decided to climb being sick with Pneumonia? He got paid to help his clients climb ,but not to put his life on stake.If he felt confident they could summit last year,I m sure he would have climbed and not waited another year.Seems Tomaz is angry that Minga G climbed this year and making all the issue.Minga G didn’t know last year that he would climb this year.If… Read more »

Abs
Abs
1 month ago
Reply to  jack

I agree Jack. I think Tomaz account reeks of his previous year’s fallout with Mingma G. Snorri would have similar comments if you look up his previous accounts. I do remember last year that Mingma G did state after the failed winter attempt that “he will be back but this time with an All Nepalese team” .. i’m not sure how he knew that 1 year in advance last year after the failed attempt and this year used some of the supplies from last year to his own team? I think the fact that SOMEONE summitted in winter (all 10… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  jack

Snorri and Rotar were bitter about Mingma G, but it does raise questions about what climbers can rightfully expect of commercial operators. There was plenty to for Snorri and Rotar to complain about last year. Yes, Mingma G was likely sick. But people get sick on expeditions all the time, and there should be people and plans in place to deal with that. (Nims is right to plan with backup plan after backup plan.) Mingma’s planning was not appropriate for winter K2. Appears that there were not enough Sherpas, not enough time (given the delays on their arrival and the… Read more »

Abs
Abs
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Muddyboots you know Nazir Sabir has said some ridiculous things lately, but one thing he said is so true.. that after the Nepali summit success, the trio tried to copy that without investing enough planning and checks into it .. they somehow only stuck to the “if they can do it, we can do it” .. without being planned enough on the route up to the top. Which is why it beats me when the blame is being scattered around – aren’t you responsible to decide when to go ahead or not .. who was pushing them but themselves? There… Read more »

Dave
Dave
1 month ago
Reply to  Abs

There does almost seem to be a shift here from personal responsibility to making Sherpas responsible. Rotar all but blames the Sherpa for him having to turn back for instance, not to mention expecting them to share forecasts, plans and so on. Snorri’s team and and the Nepali team had different forecasts, but as far as I can tell (I may be wrong), neither team shared forecasts, not just the Nepalese.

Perhaps a by-product from decades of Westerners’ reliance on the sherpa?

+3
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave

These are paid forecast services, tailored for specific climbs. So I doubt the forecasters want one team to buy it and share it with everyone else. I even wonder if it is provided for proprietary use by the team that buys it with sharing forbidden. Sort of like my Netflix account, no sharing permitted.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave

It would certainly influence the weight Europeans would give a new upstart forecaster based in Katmandu, when they are using the
European/North American forecaster(s) with decades of experience, the ones all expeditions use and have trusted.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Ooops, correction, in the 2nd paragraph I was referring to Mingma G, who was working with Snorri and Rotar last year.
But in the 4th paragraph, it should be not Mingma G cited, but Mingma Sherpa of SST who said (in the past) that it is not his place to turn people around. Sorry about the error.

+1
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  jack

Totally agree with you. This is a bias description of what happened. Hallucinated with personal grudges, jealousy and anger. If Mingma G team failed to summit K2 this winter, Tomaz Rotar would not mention Mingma G for sure.

+2
Max Madera
Max Madera
1 month ago
Reply to  Tenzin

Tomaz harshly critized Mingma after the winter 2020 expedition both in his personal blog and in specialized mountaineering webpages.

0
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  jack

Idk why people are after nepali team. First, cutting rope. Then came secrecy of crevasse. When Sajid and some other confirmed they were briefed. Then now a rumor that they lied about the summit push. I don’t trust Tomaz Rotar at all.

+4
Max Madera
Max Madera
1 month ago
Reply to  Tenzin

I disagree. I don’t know what really happened, obviously, but if the account is true, Tomaz and the other clients (and all of the them seem to be in the same line) had many reasons to complain, after paying 80000€ each. Mingma arrived later than the clients, they did not fix almost anything in the route, then he departed by health reasons and soon after all the team left as well. They did not reimbursed anything and, on top of it, they suspected that this year they were using some stuff purchased by them the previous year. Who wouldn’t have… Read more »

Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

I am sure he has his personal issues with Mingma G. i understand that. But he assumed many things last year too. He thought Mingma was pretending to be sick when he was not actually sick… in reality he was actually sick with pneumonia. What if those stuff he thought were their stuff from last year were not actually theirs?we are only hearing from one side right now.

+1
Last edited 1 month ago by Tenzin
Tara
Tara
1 month ago
Reply to  jack

Sure Mingma G new last year that he will climb K2 this year. He went to K2 last year obviously not with a serious plan to summit. He very likely didn’t take Snorri and Rotar serious. Since they’d payed for everything, it was a good opportunity for Mingma to experience winter K2, make some money and prepare for serious attempt next year. I understand Snorri and Rotar felt cheated. It’s not just about whether Mingma G got pneumonia or not, it’s how the whole expedition was organized from the beginning. It just wasn’t honest, period. Another problem is a commercial… Read more »

Dr MCS
Dr MCS
1 month ago
Reply to  Tara

You are assuming far too many things & blaming Mingma G …Snorri had one full year to sort out the financial &other issues with Mingma G…why didnt he do it ??

0
Mountain
Mountain
1 month ago

Nepali team didn’t keep any secrecy, Tomar had a personal problem with Mingma G so he is just saying negative thing about Mingma. Just to make you all clear, I watched Nepali interview and according to it . Mingma G weather report showed good weather forecast as he was using one from Nepal and Nims weather report was not good. Mingma G and Nims had a discussion whether to climbed it or not and which weather report to follow. They had no plan at all to climb that day, but they took calculated risk and followed Mingma G weather forecast.… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Mountain
Dr MCS
Dr MCS
1 month ago
Reply to  Mountain

Good Points….These guys had one full year to sort out last year’s problems….Sad that Lives have been Lost…

0
Pawel
Pawel
1 month ago

After reading that Tomaz was looking for leader at 8000m on K2, it mean he shouldn’t be there at all in winter, same as any other climber that needs a Sherpa to climb a mountain. I understand that Tomaz has some issues with Mingma G about last year expedition and €80.000, and I understand he could not trust him. But it is insane that he still trust Seven Summit Treks – company that not provide tents for own members including Sherpas and International climbers, put them into real life danger and some had serious frostbites after it; company that not… Read more »

Seeking Closure
Seeking Closure
1 month ago

What an absolute circus this year’s winter K2 has become. On the one hand you have national pride and on the other you have a mix of emotions/jealousy/amateurs. I wonder what people are actually hoping to get from all this? Everyone is going to have their own story. Closure will be hard to find.

+2
Mike
Mike
1 month ago

Not just K2 – all high mountains. When you mix cheap fame and $ you get this result. It has been happening on Everest for the last 15 years. The social media just made this easier to see and more immediate. If you love climbing and the physical/spiritual rewards that come with it, why not climb another mountain next to K2 or Everest that are EMPTY?

+5
Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike

You are 100% right, except that not just the last 15 years but at last 25 years, what happened in 1996 on Everest was beginning of that circus.

+4
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul

Right, and while it should seem that a widely reported disaster with many deaths would make people think twice, instead it made more unqualified people think “hey, I should do that too!”

+1
Dr MCS
Dr MCS
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul

I totally agree with you..Circus started in 1996 & also with Jon Krauker’s Book…

0
Mike
Mike
1 month ago

Why do we like to read abut the climbs and exploration? To get away from our day-to-day reality and competitive grind in the valleys. And now the same reality has migrated to the mountains. At some point the mountain world provided a sanctuary from the real world. People escaped to the hights from the problems back home. Now it is an arena for competitiveness, self promotion, crude money making endeavours at any cost. Where is the spirit of exploration and discovery? There is nothing new reported, no discovery, not even photos of beautiful vistas and dramatic views. Instead we are… Read more »

muddyboots
muddyboots
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike

Another great book, Art of Freedom, about Voytek Kurtyka, by Bernadette MacDonald. Climbing as art, and freedom. He refused the Piolet d’or several times because he thought climbing should not be about awards, even those granted by peers.
Well, those days are gone, mostly. But when climbers today do take a less popular path, we should celebrate them.

+1
Jambo
Jambo
1 month ago
Reply to  muddyboots

Couldn’t agree more. Kurtyka is a total legend! Cutting edge alpinism, done in impeccable light and fast style and without all the self-aggrandisement that seems to be a hallmark of much of today’s high altitude climbing. Kurtyka and the likes of Alex MacIntyre, Erhard Loretan, Jean Troillet, etc., were true pioneers and their accomplishments have rarely been matched/surpassed in the contemporary era. Alex MacIntyre – who climbed with Kurtyka regularly before he sadly passed away on Annapurna – famously said that “the wall was the ambition, the style became the obsession.” ‘The Art of Freedom’ is a great book –… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Jambo

Will check those out, thanks! Kurtyka and his Polish comrades financed their expeditions by smuggling. Rather harder and more dangerous to do these days! Will point out that costs to travel and climb have greatly increased– even permit costs alone ($11, 000 for just a permit in Nepal) . So climbers either must have a really good job, which means not so much time climbing, and short expeditions where things are organized and prepped for them. Or they work in the industry, like the Nepali team. Or they have corporate sponsors. In earlier days there were more sponsors but they… Read more »

Abs
Abs
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike

Well apart from everyone wanting to climb the highest and the 2nd highest mountain .. which is dangerously crazy enough.. people are now after records on it as well .. which is needless competition ..i mean climbing K2 is not like a regular sport where you need to break records after records .. everyone says 8000+ is a death zone, you’re dying if you’re not moving .. and here are people not built for that $h|t doing the $h|t .. putting their own lives, of their families and their fellows + rescuers at so much risk.

0
Seeking Closure
Seeking Closure
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike

Couldn’t agree with more with this, Mike. You hit the nail on the head, spot on!

+1
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago

It is a complete lie. I am sure other climbers will confirm some day. On 14th, Nepali team had a weather reporter from Kathmandu called Krishna Manandar who told the team that the weather on 14th was perfect. But the weather report of other climbers showed bad in their report and therefore they didn’t move up to camp 3 on14th. Everybody surely knew the window for summit push was either on 15th or 16th… why would they ask Nepali team for summit push? Did they just wanted to follow Nepali? Are they stupid enough to not able to decide for… Read more »

Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago

And to say Mingma G had a claimed health issue as if he was pretending being sick is rude. It shows what kind of person Tomaz Rotar is. Mingma G had pneumonia… he would have died if he was to climb that year putting others lives in danger too.

+5
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago

Angela. I know you are doing your job, but i think instead of publishing articles which contradicts each other in a tv series style. Why don’t you do a thorough investigation and publish one with unbiased motive. These endless individual accusations to each other will only create matters worse and will only hurt feelings of those people who need a closure to this tragic saga.

+4
John
John
1 month ago
Reply to  Tenzin

Damn, you Nepali fanboys sure like to talk down Angela’s writing when it’s not painting your “guys” up to be the hero’s they certainly aren’t.
Great article and sheds a light on these people. Completely disgusted… There is something seriously wrong with some of these people, taking elementary-school childish behavior to a place like this..
There will always be those that will remember this season and this side of the story, this will never be forgotten.

0
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  John

😊

+1
Andrew S.
Andrew S.
1 month ago
Reply to  John

The Nepalis didn’t come to K2 to be heroes, they came to summit, and they did just that. This was the last big first to claim. I’m sure every team at base camp was telling half-truths to the other teams, sharing just enough information to ensure cooperation, but not enough to potentially jeopardise their chances of being first. Would John and Ali still be alive if they’d have gone on the push with the Nepalis? Would they have even been able to reach the summit with the Nepalis? Maybe, but we’ll never know. Fact is that it didn’t happen that… Read more »

Ronald
Ronald
1 month ago
Reply to  Andrew S.

Good comment. As a westerner (i am European), i cant understand the problem with the Nepalis. They summited 16 january and somehow what happened on 5 6 february (which is a sad story) is their fault. They were long gone. It seems nowadays it is never your own fault. Everybody on that mountain was both mature and experienced, they know the rules of this “game”. If it gets to dangerous to summit, you can turn around. As most did. I am following mountaineering for years and never heard of a crevasse on that place on K2 so it must have… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Ronald
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  John

John, what makes you say “…up to be the heroes they certainly aren’t”? Let me hear your arguments for why they CERTAINLY aren’t heroes? Perhaps you don’t appreciate the scale of what the Nepali team has achieved. Look at the big picture, look at the sky – not at the comments below from the Nepali fanboys, who you despise anyway. Let me put it into perspective for you. The Nepali team – the dark horse of winter mountaineering, and so late into this game – comes out of nowhere and sets not one but two records, by putting not one,… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

Just correcting/rephrasing the third paragraph of my above reply to John [in CAPs]: [clip] The Nepali team – the dark horse of winter mountaineering, and so late into this game – comes out of nowhere and sets not one but two records, by putting not one, not two, but a whopping 10 climbers on K2 – arguably the most mythologized and deadliest mountain – in winter, which WAS, UNTIL THEN, beyond the wildest imagination of the best/most hardcore mountaineers of today, including European ice warriors such as Krzysztof Wielicki (polish), Jerzy Kukuczka (Polish), Simone Moro (Italian), Denis Urubko (Russian-Polish), and… Read more »

Blabla
Blabla
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

It is an out of this world achievement but please do not compare to other names. No O2 was used in the previous winter attempts on K2 and without 02 on the mountain, even the Nepalis would not have been able to fix lines and camps in the short weather windows they had, not to mention make a summit push all the way from camp 3. Even in a extremely strong team breaking trail and fixing lines on oxygen, the had to climb for 24hrs in extreme cold and all of them had some degree of frostbite despite the top… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Blabla

You are plain wrong about Txikon though. Read this article: [clip] Afterwards Txikon had returned to K2 in order to make a summit attempt shortly before the end of the calendar winter. But he also failed. Txikon’s expedition team is already the sixth to leave K2 empty-handed in winter. [clip] I mistook Kukuczka for Kaczkan. With hard-to-pronounce Polish names like that who can even remember their names even if they are mountaineering legends. Kaczkan did try K2 in the winter of 2002/2003 but failed. However, I concede you may be right about Simone Moro – may never have tried K2… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

As much as I dislike these people trying to put the Nepalese down, your fanboy posts are not doing your side much favours either. The Nepalese used massive amounts of resources and oxygen to do this. Multiple teams fixed lines. They made history but lets not get ahead of ourselves with the ‘greatest slam dunk’ rhetoric. Previous attempts had nowhere the resources with no oxygen. The Russians were so poor they literally had to wear downsuits in the plane to save baggage costs. Base camp was sparse. 2021 Winter K2 is New York City in comparison. I would have liked… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Ron

Hate the word ‘fanboys’, it is condescending on your part to refer to them by such word, to say the least. Give me another example of winter ascent or any other from high altitude mountaineering history that compares to putting 10 people of one nation on K2 in winter and breaking two records at once. It is what it is: the “biggest slam dunk” in high altitude mountaineering history, to date. Not implying that this feat can not be repeated/bettered in the future! You insult the intelligence of those great mountaineers who’ve climbed K2 in the past and have spoken… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

You have some comprehension issues here.
The word “fanboy” is referring to you, not the climbers.
The NYC comparison was in relation to the amount of people, commercialism, and equipment in K2 Winter this time, compared to any other winter expedition.
BC became so big that things that would have ended other seasons, such as losing a crapload of equipment, would not end this one.

+1
Last edited 1 month ago by Ron
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Ron

no comprehension issue there buddy. i only refused to acknowledge who you were referring to as ‘fanboy’-of course, me. you don’t have to pretend to be protective of the Nepalis with your opening line “as much as i dislike these people trying to put the Nepalis down….” line, while condescendingly dissing one of them with your disparaging comment, “your fanboy posts are not helping your side any” in your next line. it’s straight outta the playbook of a bully. your disparaging ‘fanboy’ label carries more or less the same sting as a “N-word” when applied to blacks, or “you bitch”… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Radu
Radu
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

“putting 10 people of one nation on K2 in winter and breaking two records at once” I admire what they did and I’m not biased towards one nation or another, however I think the big number is not an argument for record breaking, on the contrary: K2 was also beaten by the big number of people and resources on the final assault. If instead of 10 people they were 2 or 3, do you think they would have succeeded? Maybe, but their chances would have been much lower… It’s somehow similar to what happened to Everest during the last 50… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Radu

was the big number a key to their success – if they had three in their team would they still have succeeded? it’s a very good question really. I’m trying to wrap my head around it. on the net, yes, i think big number was a big part of the Nepali team’s success for at least two reasons: 1) division of labor/more human resources: plenty of help/support available for a big team (and division of labor based on competencies – so each piece of work done was by the best qualified person in the team). for a solo climber, there… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Blabla

You wrote: “Cory Richards climbed GII with Urubku and Moro without O2 and Sherpa support on the mountain.” Are you implying by the above statement that the Nepali team climbed K2 in winter with Sherpa support – was the above GII winter example to show how their approach varied from the All Nepal Team’s on K2 in winter? Make no mistake, the Nepali team hired no Sherpa support – they [the nine Sherpas in the team] threw off the yoke of Sherpas that would have attached them to their clients – they were all were climbing for themselves as part… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

You have basic problems with understanding the difference between alpine style, using o2 as was the case now, and not using o2 at all for any of the aspects of the climb (all previous winter expeditions to k2). It is not claiming which approach is good or not, but clearly stating the facts. Read more about the past before stating biased and uninformed opinions.

0
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Chris

What do you mean by using O2 as was the case now? Didn’t Nims Purja climb K2 in winter without O2? Wasn’t that alpine enough in your opinion?  Anyway, all I know is there is a broad agreement on 4 categories of “firsts” – the first ascent, the first ascent without 02, the first winter ascent, the first winter ascent without O2 [because them alpine style climbers insisted on it, and so Nims climbed it without O2 in the case of K2 to shut them up]. The Nepali team has set two records on K2: the first winter ascent, and… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

“Alpine enough…” You shouldn’t even be discussing on this forum. Read more comments from people with better understanding of mountaineering. There is no denying of the great achievement by Nims and the 10, but comparing them with previous winter expeditions on k2 is like apples and oranges. All previous winter expeditions used no o2, one of the other commentators mentioned Urubko. Would be interesting to see how he fared on lines fixed on o2. It is quite clear now that the previous expeditions made a mistake of trying to get it in a pure style, which simply might not be… Read more »

Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  Chris

I wouldnt put all the focus on oxygen. Probably as important is the sheer manpower and equipment this year. Until now, we are used to expeditions where one team usually did all the work, minimalist BC, and limited resources. That’s hard enough in summer.

Regarding Urukbo, this season has put in context how beastly Urukbo’s solo ascent to 7500m+ was. The guy is clearly a machine.

0
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Chris

Urubko, whom I respect to high heaven, tried climbing K2 in winter at least twice in his own style (whatever you may want to call it Alpine style or Urubko style) but failed both the times. The last I heard he’s retired from mountaineering, in case you didn’t know. Are you insinuating that had those climbers who tried K2 in winter in the past without 02 or in Alpine style, say Urubko – had they only climbed K2 in winter with 02 – they would have succeeded, so, therefore, what the Nepali team achieved is no big deal, notwithstanding the… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Blabla
Blabla
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

No, I am implying that on GII (as example) a team of 3 did all the work on the mountain and used no O2 on any part of it, while on K2 multiple teams worked on the route and deployed resources to higher camps with a number of strong climbers on O2 breaking trail and fixing lines, all this supported by a massive basecamp and you can’t compare these two approaches and say one topped the other.

0
Blabla
Blabla
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

Anyways, I also think that Rotar’s statements regarding the team that made the summit are ridiculous and I have nothing but respect for the Nepalese climbers. They were prepared, motivated, had the right team of experienced professional climbers and the resources needed and they executed the job perfectly.

+1
Blabla
Blabla
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

You should have a little more respect for the mountaineering legends that set the path for the future generations tho, you are mentioning names that deserve no disrespect and climbing is not that much of a competition really..

0
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Blabla

tell me which mountaineers’ names i disrepected and how?

+5
Blabla
Blabla
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

All of the names you mentioned you belittle them as if they were weaker climbers now that K2 was summited in winter. You obviously have very little knowledge of mountaineering and really have no business commenting here. Great achievement, but comparing it to previous K2 winter attempts or to what the Polish Ice Warriors did or saying you can’t remember Kukuczka’s name is A JOKE. Stop embarassing yourself and don’t act as an expert in a field you know nothing of. Climbing is not nearly a bit as competitive as you believe – it’s not a race and it’s not… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Blabla

Blabla, I have very little knowledge of mountaineering. I will be the first to admit it.

Why don’t you, who apparently knows the A to Z of mountaineering and finds me deficient in that area, offer me a master class in the history of mountaineering with a focus on the finer points of the alpine style of climbing and some of its leading exponents?

May be not.

For then I will have to sit through your “blabla”. Hehe!

+8
Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Chris
Chris
1 month ago
Reply to  Blabla

Spot on. Uttam for one “armchair warrior” should quit littering this forum.

0
Mountain
Mountain
1 month ago
Reply to  John

This will never be forgotten , History has been made with golden colour. Well done 10 climbers for conquering K2 in winter. Haters gonna hate but who cares. All people are jealous specially nah sayers. They were in separate team, Nepali team hadn’t kept secrecy about their climb. Mingma G weather forecast showed good weather report and Nims forecast showed different weather report. They discussed at very last minute and after that they took calculated risk and followed Mingma G weather forecaster and summited that day.Even not being climatized in camp 4 Nims took risk . They have worked blood,sweat… Read more »

Dave
Dave
1 month ago
Reply to  Tenzin

All views of the people from the mountain should be published and the reader allowed to determine which accounts are more reliable or not, rather than an editor.

+1
Last edited 1 month ago by Dave
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave

That’s a good point too.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave

Hearing different interviewees in their own words is good. Thank you for that Angela and Explorersweb! My only journalistic quibble is that subheadlines/ subheadings should reflect the journalist/publication’s objective point of view or conclusion and not be simply the words or thoughts of the interviewee. Headlines and Subheads are the province of the author and publisher, not the interviewee. For example: “Snorri left out of the secret summit push” as a headline implies that the author, Angela, agrees that that the summit push was both kept secret and that Snorri was actively excluded. I doubt that is Explorerweb’s conclusion, because… Read more »

Blabla
Blabla
1 month ago

Tomaz Rotar blaming the world and looking for a ladder at 8000m, what’s new?
I wonder if the Sherpas and Nepalis in general whose services he will have to rely on if he wants to jumar any mountain again will be aware of his behavior after every failed expedition.

+4
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Blabla

He knew that he will have to rely on sherpas. That’s why he ended by shamelessly saying he will still trust SST.

+3
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago

Why put the burden of sharing information solely on the Nepali team – when it’s supposed to be a two-way communication? Couldn’t Snorri’s team, at C2, have called up the Nepali team up on C3 (who were enjoying better weather), asking, “Hey Nims buddy, what’s the weather/route situation up there like?” Or did Snorri, or here in this case Tomaz expect the Sherpas would give every bit of information to them – kinda smacks of WHITE ENTITLEMENT to me. I think the primary burden falls on the party that needs information to improve their odds on K2, in this case… Read more »

Paul
Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

Love it!

+4
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

What Rotar is accusing is that Nepali team lied. Implying that Snorri asked. But it still makes no sense. Sona Sherpa from SST was in the Nepali team. Also Sajid is in Snorri team. Sajid would have mentioned about Nepali team lying… he would have known about it being in the same team. Sajid mentioned about Snorri not knowing about the summit push but he didnt accuse like Rotar that Nepali lied…

+2
F v
F v
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

JS posted on 14 jan: “the wether in C3 was really bad last night, and Nims and his team had to sleep in a glacier crack over the nighta.” So JS made a call to C3 at 14th jan, else he couldn’t know this.

+1
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  F v

Alternatively, JS might have gotten that info (about bad weather in C3) from his source in base camp, who’d, in turn, had heard it from Nims’ team.

+6
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  F v

Mingma G. said that Snorri and the Sadparas were using low frequency radios that could only communicate with basecamp and not with others on the mountain.
BaseCamp often ends up relaying messages. Probably that’s how he heard about Nim’s team sleeping in a crevasse.

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Chhang Dawa Sherpa, head of the SST expedition also said that SST climbers (including sherpa) were given radios that could only communicate with base camp and not each other or others on the mountain.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago

Angela, did you ask Rotar about his doubts about whether Sajid ever caught up with Snorri, Ali and possibly Mohr? In his published article Rotar wrote: “The fate of the trio remains a mystery for now. Dozens of different ideas were born about what could happen to them and what was the reason for their disappearance. One of them, who was supported by Ali’s son Sajid, says that there were no fixed ropes above the four and that the three of them started the ascent through the Bottle neck in the Alpine style. In doing so, I would question whether Sajid ever came in contact… Read more »

F v
F v
1 month ago

I have another question for Rotar. Do you asked your sherpa Pasang on the 4th something about a tent? Does it even cross your mind for 1 second on that day who took your tent up to C3?
I have actually the same question for Antonios and Noel. I am interested in what they were thinking about that. O bradly for example knew his tent was coming up. (I read somewhere he was carring the tent by himself)

+1
Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago
Reply to  F v

Coolies

0
Climber under 8000
Climber under 8000
1 month ago
Reply to  F v

His tent was taken by his Sherpa but yeah, he knows that his home is following him; same as JP and Tamara, plus John Snorri Team
The rest was expecting miracle…

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago

JP Mohr was carrying his own tent, because he was paying for minimal SST support and no sherpa.
O’Brady was paying for 2 personal Sherpa, and was apparently wise enough to get them to carry an extra tent for insurance. Perhaps O’Brady will say more about why he decided to get them to carry a tent, when the other SST climbers went up expected tents were there for them.

0
Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago

Most unethical to charge sheet a 22 years old youngster for own failures and moral shortcomings.

+2
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago

Tomaz: “Snorri told me that he had spoken to Mingma G on the mountain and that he had told him that they were not going for the summit, but just to check the tents at Camp 3.” Tomaz makes it sound like Mingma G lied to Snorri by hiding their plan for their summit bid. I don’t think so. I don’t think Mingma even knew at that point if they were going to the summit at all or even when or so the implied charge that he was hiding a secret is preposterous. Mingma said to Snorri, “Going only up… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

Have you checked mu blog?

+1
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago

Nope. Can you give me the link?

+3
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago

I just finished reading your blog. Thank you. I really hope Pakistan will realize the potentiality of Sajid Sadpara and help him fulfill all his climbing dreams. I hope Pakistan will also appreciate mountaineering and Pakistanis who are passionate about mountain climbing. Thank you again Samson Simon Sharaf.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

I don’t know about Mingma G’s decision-making, but I strongly believe that Nims, who is a detailed planner and risk-assessor, things paramount to his Special Forces training and demonstrated by his whole career to date, would not discard a weather report he believed. So I disagree with your assessment that the weather report was not really the decision-driver. Nims would have to be convinced that the Katmandu forecast was credible and that they had a sufficient window. But this team could go very fast with fixed lines in place, so it didn’t have to be as much of a window… Read more »

Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Sure you make a good point, and I quite agree with you. The forecast Mingma G had was from a credible source, who had accurately predicted a cyclone that killed many trekkers on a mountain pass in Central Nepal some years back. All I was getting at was the Kathmandu forecast has to be seen in the context of the urgency the Nepali team were faced with, as Snorri and others were close on their heels on Camp 2 around Jan 14. Wish the media had also elaborated on what the Kathmandu weather window forecast got right over other competing… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

There is something strange going on with upvotes and downvotes. I just upvoted your post and instead -3 votes were added.

+1
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

oh ya? if upvoting once translates into -3 votes, downvoting will probably do just the opposite, add +3 votes. it’s a tupsy turvy world we live in. hehe! let’s hope the explorersweb’s IT team will fix this glitch. i wish they’d increase the editing window (time) for editing/reediting one’s comment once it’s been posted.

+4
Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Steve p
Steve p
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Agreed the pos/neg votes on comments is all out of whack I can’t pos vote this one

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve p

Hahahaha even that comment gets a negative vote.
We should all just ignore pos/neg votes anyway.
Is truth or the search for truth a grade-school popularity contest?

0
Mountain
Mountain
1 month ago

Thanks for info, u have dig out the truth and not taking anyone side and written very well. Angela seems to be little bias towards Nepalese Mountaineers. The fact is that mountaineers are on different team and all were experienced climbers to make there own decision. Tomaz seems to be selfish and have a ego problem. He is spitting out his personal problem with Mingma G . Mingma G said clearly , he wouldn’t take any client this year. Also, Nepali team hadn’t lied to anyone . I have watched Nepali interview and according to Mingma G he was following… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Mountain
Anni
Anni
1 month ago
Reply to  Mountain

…if Nims was like a big brother to Ali, why didn’t he support the search operation? Why didn’t he sit in the helicopter and guide the search team? Why didn’t any of the summiters support the rescue operation on site? The pilots could have gotten very valuable information, because only the summiters knew what it looked like above camp 3 and where the 3 lost ones could be located and be found.

+1
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Anni

Following Nims, i know he would be the most active and involved supporter for the rescue team if not the main rescuer himself. But they were already back in Nepal. Calculate the time. By the time they reach K2 it would be 4 days late. 8000m in winter, 2-3 days is the most you can survive…

+1
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Anni

Also it depends on flight too. There is, as far as i know, one direct flight a week between KTM and Pakistan.

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Anni

Simple answer: because Nims and the Nepali team were already back in Nepal when the search happened.

0
jack
jack
1 month ago
Reply to  Anni

OMG, this show how ill informed u r .Please ,before make any assumptions,try to find the truth. Didnt u know that Nepali team had already left K2 basecamp at that time?They were in Kathmandu. Did u think they would just relax at the K2 basecamp for weeks after summiting.K2 basecamp is not some beach resort that people would just relax for weeks after summiting.

+1
Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago
Reply to  Mountain

Lol. Negatives?

0
PlanM
PlanM
1 month ago

Does this guy really expect that someone should have brought him a ladder because he wasn’t capable of going over the crevasse otherwise? Does he really complain that a different team did not ask for his permission to go on to the summit once they saw the chance? Does he complain that another Team (which he threw under the bus last year) hasn’t informed him about weather conditions and rope colors? Oh Lord, you are on Winter K2 – you are either one of the strongest climbers in the world or you die if you don’t turn around in time.… Read more »

PlanM
PlanM
1 month ago
Reply to  PlanM

… and he is upset that he wasn’t invited to the summit push. Why oh why should they have done this? Why does he expect this? He was an SST client, nobody else owes him anything on the mountain.

+5
Stop Craziness
Stop Craziness
1 month ago

In hindsight, though even a single death is one too many, its good to see we did not have more fatalities given too many climbers were attempting the summit in early Feb and the chaos that ensued on camps 2 and 3 could have made things much worse for many. This circus was expected given 60-70 climbers this winter season. If I plan to climb a peak like K2 that to in winter, I will do my homework and when I know how tight spaces are on pretty much all the camps on K2, will back off. Not worth risking… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago

As we try to understand what went wrong, I don’t think it is fair to accuse people of lying, bad faith, or deliberately withholding information or help. In business we often have to look at problems and decide if it is a people problem but the systems are OK, or if it is a systems problem. I believe this is a fundamental systems problem that led to failures and tragedy. And too many people here are looking for malice and competition, when we should be looking at incompetence, confusion, disorganization and communication problems. For example, Rotar says he wasn’t told… Read more »

Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

I agree. SST and other organizations should learn from the mistakes.

0
Armchair Expert
Armchair Expert
1 month ago

Nothing more than a bunch of selfish, ego-driven individuals who put their needs first. 10 kids without a father only because they were chasing fame, social media and validation. This needs to stop.

+1
Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago

Story I heard from Mingma G’s (in Nepali language)side that, when Snorri and Rotar was his client last year they were putting too much pressure on him. His health was deteriorating badly he had chest pain and he was vomiting too apart from that his had leg injury as well… his other Chinese client (forget his name) abandon his summit try after seeing Mingma’s health but Snorri and Rotar wasn’t willing to give up , even after expedition was over and they were back in their home country they were criticising him all over social media and defaming even possible… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Kathill
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

Instead of brainstorming on what actually went wrong on 4th and 5th Feb, people are looking for someone or a team to blame on their failure. First there was a rope cutting accusation. Then not briefing others about the changed route and crevasse. And when all accusations got busted. Finally lying about the summit push… besides Tomaz even Sajid (a Snorri team member) didn’t mention about Nepali team lying about summit push. Instead of focusing on Nepali team with jealousy and hatred, people should be focusing on SST and the climbers who made an attempt for summit on the 5th… Read more »

Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago
Reply to  Tenzin

Just imagine if Nepalese team had announced their good weather window and let other teams join them but in reality if their forecast turns out to be wrong and lot worse incidents took place then again that blame would go to Nepalese team to be irresponsible…so it is very wrong of Rotar to be saying Nepalese didn’t share their weather window. They are there to taking their own risk not to share the risk. I believe it the decision of each team to take risk and up to what level they are willing take risk. I might sound harsh, rude… Read more »

Timz
Timz
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

Dont blame a deceased man ..who cant reply your allegations here.each person who knows snorri will witness how caring and good soul he was.he never treated his hap rudely or inhumanly

+2
TMartin
TMartin
1 month ago

It’s probably buried in one of the posts or comments…does anyone know the circumstances under which Mohr was travelling. Had he actually joined the Sdpara/Snorri team, by invite or requestor did he just happen to be in the the same time frame and was travelling ‘solo’. Is there any ‘protocol’ when a single climber wants to ‘piggy back’ others, etc. Just curious.

+1
Serial Piggy Backer
Serial Piggy Backer
1 month ago
Reply to  TMartin

The protocol says that if you don’t get enough likes on your Instagram, you “piggy back” on others to take advantage to make it higher, get better photos and selfies.

0
Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago
Reply to  TMartin

Happened to be there

0
TMartin
TMartin
1 month ago

More curiosity; what exactly does a company like Seven Summits provide; is it ‘outfitting services’ or does it include an ‘official’ guide. E.G. it seems Sadpara was providing a guide service to his client, whereas, does a SST client make the go/no go decision? Are there ‘guarantees’ as to high altitude assistants, etc?

0
Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago
Reply to  TMartin

Commercial Client Services piggy back climbers to the top who otherwise have neither prowess nor business of being there. I our days, ropes were fixed by mountain guides who were integral part of expedition. HAPs were only used to haul loads to various camps. Now its an entirely different game and some Nepalese or modern climber in the group can explain better.

+1
TMartin
TMartin
1 month ago

Thank you for the response. What I meant about ‘piggy back’ is where an non guided team or individual shadows a guided team, but there is no overt ‘agreement’ that they are traveling together. From what I am reading, it seems at some point a paying ‘client’ ,who may be travelling with other ‘paying clients’, might find his or he self on their own. 8000 m’s doesn’t seem to be the place to be discussing the fine print in a contract.

0
Samson Simon Sharaf
1 month ago
Reply to  TMartin

Yes. Thats it. Nowadays its a super market and Sherpas make on the spot business

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  TMartin

Here is a post -K2 interview with Chhang Dawa Sherpa, who with his brother Mingma Sherpa, owns and manages SST: https://alpinismonline.com/2021/11632.asp SST says they provide “infrastructure only” and clients decide if they want a Sherpa/guide, or none. One would think tents are part of the infrastructure, but Chhang Dawa doesn’t take responsibility for that debacle either. It is the climbers’ fault that too many of them reached Camp 3: “We realized that K2 and in winter is extremely risky, but climbers have the freedom to make their own decision even if it goes against our leader’s advice. In the future… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

The big problems with this approach: Chhang Dawa says SST climbers knows what they signed up to get or not get (but clearly they don’t understand). And non-SST expedition climbers are endangered by this approach too. Snorri and the Sadparas (who were not with SST) had to share their tent pre-summit out of compassion for the SST climbers who would have been left outside without tents by SST’s faulty planning and execution. This insane approach endangers everyone else on the mountain. What are other non-SST climbers to do? Refuse to help SST climbers abandoned by SST at high camps? Carry… Read more »

Tara
Tara
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

So well described! I can just imagine this dangerously chaotic situation was well known from the past and thus predictable to the Sherpa team. Understandable they did everything they could to avoid it, to be as far as possible from it. I’m pretty sure their strategy was not just about competition but also to avoid that kind of situation they were by no means responsible for.

0
Hello
Hello
1 month ago
Reply to  TMartin

JP Mohr was with SST.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Hello

as an independent climber, with no Sherpa or O2 from SST. That’s why he was carrying his own tent.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  TMartin

Mohr was an SST client but climbing alone without a guide/Sherpa.

0
V R
V R
1 month ago

1. They stole the summit.. O2 is cheating
2. Where are the summit pictures
3. Can’t see all 10 in summit picture
4. They lied about the weather
5. They didn’t tell us about how to cross the crevasse
6. They cut the ropes
…..
…..
Sounds like people having a hard time accepting that the Nepali team got to the top through
1. Good and sensible planning
2. Strong team unencumbered with Western clients
3. Dash of luck

+7
Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  V R

Easy to forget Nim’s team had a near expedition ending logistical disaster. SST losing their tents wasn’t the only logistical snafu. Luck has a massive role here, you need alot more than just a dash of it.

Anyway, whatever killed Ali, JS,JPM was very likely to be some unexpected incident on the way up. Everyone was hoping and expecting they would summit. No amount of planning or team strength would have mattered if luck isn’t on your side.

0
Last edited 1 month ago by Ron
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Ron

Louis Pasteur: “Luck (or chance) favors the prepared mind”
Dwight Eisenhower: “Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.”

+1
Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Its a moot point given this tragedy. Tell that to Ali, Sajid, JS, JPM. They were on BC first. They spent more time on the slopes. They were more conservative with trusting weather forecasts.

Compared to them the Nepalese were clearly the bigger risk takers when attempting early on a dubious forecast. If something happened to them instead; I’m sure there will be people saying they were not acclimatised, summitted too late, too trusting of weather forecast, etc.

0
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Ron

You make some good points, but I still believe the Nepali team was more prepared and thus able to take advantage of a tiny window. The Nepalis were a real team, they knew the route and were all able to climb very fast. And they were ready to go when a forecast gave them a window they didn’t initially expect. Nims talks constantly about having backup plans B, and C and D. The Sadparas and Snorri were at base camp a long time, but that is a negative, not a positive. They hadn’t gone beyond Camp 2 and they didn’t… Read more »

Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

The Nepali’s never prepared for the eventuality that they would be an improvised composite of several teams. Within a short time they had to hope they all did well together. Luck has it they all did and nobody dragged them down. It was also Nim’s good fortune Mingma G liked him and let him in (while he disliked JS). Again you are confusing good preparation with good improvisation and again, great luck. It is true that Ali’s team on summit day were on a lesser position due to SST’s failings and being at base camp for a long time. Again,… Read more »

MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Ron

Really good preparation actually allows better improvisation and adaptation to circumstances. It’s not that things are written in stone by planning, it is more like a decision tree that has thought through what could happen and the alternatives possible for adjusting to new circumstances. Good planning is actually more flexible, not fixed. Nims also had the advantage of more money and likely more backup supplies and equipment. I would bet that Nims was already thinking about whether he might join teams with anyone else on the mountain, and that one of his backup plans was to do just that. I… Read more »

Ron
Ron
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

Like you, I’ll bet Nims probably prepared well, but he alone doesnt represent the final Nepalese team effort. If anything, Mingma G is the defacto leader given that he took Nim’s team under his wing. As you said, you cant speculate unless you’ve got the actual plans from the Nepalese. We only have the facts we actually know, which show Alis team’s approach was more prepared and “by the book” than the boldness of the Nepalese. Evidently, most climbers wouldn’t do what they did with the lower acclimatisation, conflicting weather forecasts, etc. The Nepalese gambled on their strength, their sole… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Ron
Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago

Who is the moderator of this page? I am wondering how did all +veGREEN signs turned in -veRED within 15-20 minutes. A while ago I saw lot of positive comments for NEPALESE TEAM with GREEN+ve sign. I was away for about 15-20 minutes and just came to see all of them turning into -ve RED. Farukh Ali commenting against Nepalese team had lot of -veRED but after I came back his comments have all gone +veGREEN that too with double numbers, whereas Uttam, Paul, Tenzin, Jonesnori and mine gone -veRED . Looks like someone’s PR mechanism is really working against… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Kathill
Max Madera
Max Madera
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

Why are you so concerned about +/-? Just give your honest opinion. It seems to me that there are people here that instead of trying to understand what has happened, first reading all the different accounts regardless of whether at the end one disagrees or not with them, are really thinking again in terms of world cups, winning “competitions” and scores, and just promoting or endlessly repeating comments.

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

Agree. And it’s so childish. On a slight tangential discussion on this thread, I mentioned Voytek Kurtyka as embodying climbing as art and freedom rather than awards… and that got downvoted. Apparently for many posters climbing history began only 2 months ago.

+1
Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago
Reply to  Max Madera

I was concerned…I have always been silent reader and noticed these fluctuations before as well which I chose to ignore. Today noticed time during so it just gave me some kind of concern if there is some kind of agenda behind all this.

Even neutral comments which gives Nepalese side of story are getting downvote…which I don’t understand.

I am just wondering if Explorersweb could do something about verifying the account before reacting or commenting.

+1
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

Apparently even posting neutral factual info is getting massive downvotes. I posted that the Sadparas, Snorri and SST climbers were using that could only communicate with basecamp (and thus not others on the mountain) and that basecamp was relaying the messages. Is that controversial somehow? That got downvoted. They may just be targeting people by name and not even reading the posts. You don’t need an account or email verification to post here under any name you choose, and no email verification is required. Looking at the one-time-use names that are coming up there is definitely a campaign. Some people… Read more »

Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago
Reply to  MuddyBoots

All this time I have been silent reader and hardly have comment apart from this blog, but found out this fluctuations of downvote in many other comments too, I ignored lot of times. This time I decided to speak up because I noticed the time during in fluctuation…so it obviously something isn’t right.

I agree that something have to be done about this verification of account.

+1
Tenzin
Tenzin
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

I noticed that too. I just laughed out loud!

0
Uttam
Uttam
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

Wow I didn’t know this was happening at this scale – this is BIG! Oh, what sticks most on my mind is they didn’t spare Magdalena Gorzkowska either for hewing more closely to Nepali side of the story, and for apparently laughing off those alleged remarks from the Sherpa(s) “as a joke”. Haters “mansplaining” her motives, calling her ‘narcissistic’, incompetent to be on K2 this winter (despite her bagging three 8000ers, etc), talking about her selfies as if she was posting risque pictures to seek attention (they were not “risque” at all), taking apart some remarks she’d said in the past… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Uttam
Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago
Reply to  Uttam

True…I went through all the comments on the blog on Madalena and I found them really sad…I am really starting to wonder if there is any conspiracy going on. I have followed this expedition from the beginning and seeing post, blogs, tweets and news with negative headlines is concerning me.

+2
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

Welcome to the internet and the world of social media in 2021.

+2
Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago

Mingma G’s recent post on his Facebook…hope this answers some to the questions. He also says he will help Sajid for search and recovery mission in future.

https://www.facebook.com/482241988574572/posts/2213648228767264/?d=n

+1
Don Paul
Don Paul
1 month ago
Reply to  Kathill

Everything he says sounds right to me. Mingma G also made the right decision to not take clients on this trip. SST shouldn’t be allowed any more permits, and K2 shouldn’t be allowed to become the next Mt. Everest.

This video just appeared in my youtube feed, that shows what a carnival scene Mt. Everest has become. The Indians they interview aren’t climbers, but ordinary tourists who thought anyone could climb it. On summit day they just get in line with hundreds of other people. Not everybody lives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOG8ufHmqIY

+1
Last edited 1 month ago by Don Paul
MuddyBoots
MuddyBoots
1 month ago
Reply to  Don Paul

Good video. A telling moment was when they interviewed a Nepali sherpa about these very low cost operators, and she said “I don’t want to talk about it. It’s a small community.”

0
Kathill
Kathill
1 month ago
Reply to  Don Paul

It is an eye opening video to tbh. Nepal Government is getting lot of criticism regarding Everest don’t know if they will do anything about it. In past government came up with few rule and regulations which are never followed…and again I am hearing about limiting the number of Permit but discussions is going on like-if there is only 1or 2 days of weather window then how will that help to reduce traffic jam. In case of Everest only possible way to tackle i believe is that Sherpa community (as they also getting bad name due to certain reason) should… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Kathill